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one and it hits me oh my gosh this is

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that triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that appeared in the

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Rendlesham forest incident didn't

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doesn't involvement aliens at all it was

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completely silent it comes right over

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our head it's also really standing in

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the clearing he turned over to my father

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held his hand and he looked in his eyes

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and said we're not alone and it hits me

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oh my gosh this is that triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything right redeem the Rendlesham

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the process is going on here bomb aliens

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at all it was completely cyber it comes

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right and wrong head hello everyone and

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welcome to the show looks like I got a

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little bit of editing to do for the

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podcast sorry about that

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so we had a couple of windows open here

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and that's what happened

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this is Martyn Willis welcome to podcast

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UFO and I'm a live streaming on YouTube

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all the way from Russia and my guest

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today is going to be Stanton Friedman

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and we're gonna be talking about well

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the UFO documents on midnight in the

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desert I want to get his take on that

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also Alejandro Rojas is coming up here

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in just a minute we're gonna be talking

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about he was at Roswell last week and so

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with Stan Friedman so Stan and I will be

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talking about that I'm sure Alejandro

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will be discussing that as well

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if you support the show I want to thank

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you very much and it's pretty easy to do

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it a couple dollars over more per month

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I was checking today boy we're getting

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we get a lot of downloads on our free

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show which is great I finally got it so

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I can see statistically how many are

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being downloaded so yeah if you want to

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spend a couple dollars or month or more

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you can do that on podcast UFO calm if

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you can't do that but you still want to

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listen to the whole show all you got to

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do is tune in live on youtube or on

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podcast UFO calm and also

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time is 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. used to

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standard time if you want to get on a

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mailing list on the sidebar on podcast

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UFO comm there is a little email sign if

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you just pop your email address in there

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and you'll get a notice for when the

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shows are coming up once a week and

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it'll also state the timings and all

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that and when the everything else shows

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starts again that notice will be

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included in that as well I think that's

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enough talking for me Alejandro how are

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you

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yes I was in Roswell for the 70th

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anniversary shindig of course I've been

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out there for the last out during the

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event 20 years or no not that long ten

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years or so but yeah this was a lot of

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fun this was bigger than previously

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although it's continuing to do really

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well and this being the seventh 70th a

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lot more people had shown up so we had

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like a lot of people from Arizona

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in fact Arizona MUFON had a float in the

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parade so that was a lot of fun and the

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parade actually was a lot bigger there

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were several floats so kg are a race

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Hobbs you know rents that the station

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that has a bunch of podcasts they were

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they had a float and they were also

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sponsoring and helping organize the

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daily Roswell Records event and the days

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the daily Roswell record also had its

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own float so this is fun I got to be on

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that float with Nick Pope chase Gretzky

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or no I'm sorry not Nick it was Richard

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Dolan Nick was there speaking he wasn't

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on the float but Richard Dolan his

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fiancee

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Traci chase klutz key myself David

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Marlar and his girlfriend and her girls

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and then Josh gates

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so from the TV show what expedition

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unknown home he was on our float too so

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that was kind of a lot of fun I posted

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some pictures

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that so yeah that was a good time and as

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far as the talks you know lots of great

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interesting stuff

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no graham breaking or even new piece of

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information I don't think was relayed

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mostly people at our event at the for

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the newspaper we're talking about

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Roswell itself which was kind of a

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challenge for some of us because we're

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not experts on Roswell but of course we

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are familiar with Roswell so we talked

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about that I talked about some potential

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evidence that you know some things that

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need to be analyzed that hopefully I'm a

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project of that will get those things

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analyzed but also some of the recent new

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news that discussed Roswell such as the

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document that you're going to be talking

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to Stanton Friedman about and also

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another alleged witness who has come

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forth and that was in Irena Scott's book

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so I've interviewed her not too long ago

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but she's got a new book out called UFOs

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seventy years of lies misinformation and

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government cover-ups she is a PhD

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actually and she's been in ethology for

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decades yeah as an MUFON and stuff like

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that so this book is kind of all about

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her research including yeah the

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testimony of some guy who says he was

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part of where I had seen some stuff so I

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can go over the details and that story

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to if you like yeah yeah what's here

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about that okay so this is interesting

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this guy says he was a police officer a

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deputy sheriff in fact in Big Springs

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Texas and he know in the 40 says they

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were going to pick up a witness in

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Roswell he was riding with his sheriff

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well along the way they said they saw

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some commotion near Roswell off the side

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of the road so they parked and right off

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the road so they said they were within

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12 feet of these Gurney's with bodies on

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them that the wind blew and he could see

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under the Gurney's and there were aliens

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under there he said they're like five

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feet tall big heads big eyes like like

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we know and then off in the distance

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they had like a crane that was picking

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up some large

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100 foot in diameter a circular object

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that seemed to have crashed in the

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desert there and they were collecting

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all of this so they looked at it for a

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while the military guys told them they

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couldn't get any closer and eventually

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they left and went and picked up their

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prisoner so that's a story there are a

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couple issues yes I was just gonna ask

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you about an issue that I was thinking

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go ahead yeah well what's yours mine is

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when you have an object that's a hundred

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feet across first of all there's no

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other mention of anything like that

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there's this small like Volkswagen sized

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thing mentioned at the second site or

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whatever you heard that a number of

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times I knew only here scattered debris

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and the the first site and then secondly

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how on earth would you transport a

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hundred you know circular 100-foot

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object anywhere you know that just can't

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be done or it can't be done easily or

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you know covertly in any type of way

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yeah so those are all great points yeah

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there's a lot of obvious I think glaring

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issues also none of the crash heights

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were right off the road where people

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could see him the military he says

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because the witness you can see the

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testimony he says the military didn't

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bother him didn't tell him hey don't

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tell anybody about this or get out of

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here and or anything like that so which

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is kind of funny they just you know let

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him look and they had these bodies you

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know ten feet away from the road where

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these guys came and parked so that

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doesn't fit the location there's also

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another problem so chase collects key

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was part of this where Irina and Philip

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mantle who published the book and also

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wrote the story that you can read about

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this on open minds went to MUFON said

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hey what do you guys think can you help

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us do do some research well some of the

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MUFON guys did some research and they

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found that the guy that he says was

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sheriff that he went with was sheriff in

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the 30s then he lost his sheriff duties

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you know someone else

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was elected and then he regained he

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won't ran for sheriff again and regain

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that position in the 50s but in the 40s

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this guy wasn't Sheriff

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so they suspect perhaps this guy is not

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necessarily lying but he saw something

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else maybe he saw something else that

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had crashes in the 50s when he and the

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sheriff we're driving near Roswell so

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yeah so there's a lot of problems with

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this gentleman's testimony yeah but it's

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something that else has kind of made

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some news because of course UK tabloids

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have picked up on the story yeah yeah

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yes of course they have and I and and

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roll with it absolutely right yeah

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anyway that is interesting yeah I don't

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know it doesn't sound it doesn't sound

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really that good and it's it's it's too

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bad and I was wondering you know I was

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gonna talk to Stan about Anna if there's

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a lot of people that have shown up over

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the years at the festival that were

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purported witnesses do you happen to

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know that I do because almost every year

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you know there's some hub and some

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secrecy you know did you hear about this

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guy or you know I talked to this guy or

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that guy and so that that sort of thing

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does happen in fact I heard of someone

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that supposedly was talking to people at

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this event as well so I'm not sure of

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any of the details and a lot of times

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these things don't pan out but sometimes

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they do so we'll see and sometimes these

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people go to Stanton so that'll be a

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great question to ask him as well

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he's probably aware of this story too so

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it'd be interesting to see what he

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thinks of it and of course the and the

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other thing I spoke about is this

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document that you're going to talk to

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Stan about which many of us feel there

241
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are many problems with so it'll be

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interesting to hear what Stanton has to

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say yes it will you know I don't know I

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know at first he thought it was pretty

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good but I think he may have changed his

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not mind but actually I have absolutely

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no idea what his stand is so I'm taken

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you know him on with that open question

249
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we'll see what he says yeah I have a

250
00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:13,850
funny stand story - I don't think I have

251
00:11:19,150 --> 00:11:15,529
shared this with you before or on your

252
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show so at the Museum so and I was able

253
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to go visit Stan and he's always with

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Kathleen Martin you know someone he's

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written books with recently and she's

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also helping him because you know he's

257
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getting up there and he needs some help

258
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so great both great people but one year

259
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and this is about a couple years ago

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when you go into the museum on the right

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in between the stands is where all the

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speakers are and Kathleen and Stan are

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always first there in that first spot

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right and one year Stan was sick and he

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couldn't make it out there and so just

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to make it feel like he was there

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Kathleen put a picture of him near the

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seat where he would usually sit and she

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was selling the books but it was just

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hilarious because people would walk up

271
00:12:08,259 --> 00:12:06,199
and you got that impression although I

272
00:12:10,210 --> 00:12:08,269
knew better when I first saw it you walk

273
00:12:12,579 --> 00:12:10,220
up and you see Kathleen and this picture

274
00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:12,589
of Stan everybody thought he had passed

275
00:12:17,170 --> 00:12:15,529
away I don't know for really freaking

276
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:17,180
out and you know their first reaction is

277
00:12:21,550 --> 00:12:19,850
oh my gosh what happened this is so sad

278
00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:21,560
and Catholic it's like no no no she had

279
00:12:26,199 --> 00:12:24,110
to explain a lot that year oh no he's

280
00:12:28,090 --> 00:12:26,209
fine he's fine yeah yeah I remember that

281
00:12:31,449 --> 00:12:28,100
yeah Wow

282
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:31,459
so anything else going on ah that's

283
00:12:33,550 --> 00:12:31,850
better

284
00:12:36,460 --> 00:12:33,560
I mean there is some other stuff out

285
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,470
there I just got back you know from ours

286
00:12:41,860 --> 00:12:38,720
as well and then yesterday was a force

287
00:12:44,079 --> 00:12:41,870
so doing some celebration and stuff so I

288
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:44,089
did upstate date the site yesterday so

289
00:12:50,350 --> 00:12:46,970
Anne while I was gone so you have daily

290
00:12:52,269 --> 00:12:50,360
news headlines from all of this week and

291
00:12:56,490 --> 00:12:52,279
there are some interesting headlines out

292
00:12:58,720 --> 00:12:56,500
there such as now that the UK UFO FILES

293
00:13:00,730 --> 00:12:58,730
people are taking a look at them and

294
00:13:03,550 --> 00:13:00,740
writing some stories about those so

295
00:13:08,259 --> 00:13:03,560
there are a couple interesting stories

296
00:13:10,809 --> 00:13:08,269
like these disc roo from a Cold War spy

297
00:13:13,530 --> 00:13:10,819
plane in the UK that saw some object

298
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:13,540
that was covered with 20 flashing lights

299
00:13:19,179 --> 00:13:17,120
so that's really interesting so that's a

300
00:13:20,980 --> 00:13:19,189
good story out there but yeah so there's

301
00:13:23,770 --> 00:13:20,990
some interesting headlines

302
00:13:26,890 --> 00:13:23,780
there is a sighting report from Roger

303
00:13:28,810 --> 00:13:26,900
Marsh from South Dakota about a disc

304
00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:28,820
object that a witness says look like it

305
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:31,100
broke into two pieces or two different

306
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:33,890
objects and flew away so that's kind of

307
00:13:37,870 --> 00:13:35,930
interesting too but you can see it all

308
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:37,880
at OpenMind stat TV great

309
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:40,970
alright alejandro hey thanks so much yep

310
00:13:44,070 --> 00:13:43,130
thank you all right and we'll talk to

311
00:13:46,930 --> 00:13:44,080
you next week

312
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:46,940
all righty and thanks again for doing

313
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:49,850
the show live oh my pleasure thanks for

314
00:14:01,280 --> 00:13:52,250
having me all right okay hang anyone

315
00:14:01,290 --> 00:14:38,570
you

316
00:15:17,600 --> 00:14:59,860
[Music]

317
00:15:37,790 --> 00:15:17,610
[Laughter]

318
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:47,139
[Music]

319
00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:50,030
hello hi Stan how are you welcome back

320
00:15:56,510 --> 00:15:54,270
to the show I'm glad to be on again yes

321
00:16:00,079 --> 00:15:56,520
and you've been you've been doing a lot

322
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:00,089
of traveling right yeah quite a bit yeah

323
00:16:06,260 --> 00:16:02,850
I just got back from incredibly

324
00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:06,270
successful Roswell festival annual

325
00:16:13,610 --> 00:16:08,940
festivals 70th anniversary of their bras

326
00:16:15,650 --> 00:16:13,620
well incident and best crowd I mean 70

327
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:15,660
percent over last year for the weekend

328
00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:18,170
over well over 7,000 people

329
00:16:24,430 --> 00:16:21,660
Wow can they accommodate all those

330
00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:24,440
people comfortably they're in that town

331
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,180
well yeah they've built a few new motels

332
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:29,279
and they weren't all there at once it's

333
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:33,570
over four-day period but still yeah it's

334
00:16:39,130 --> 00:16:35,970
it's festival time they closed off some

335
00:16:45,319 --> 00:16:39,140
of the streets and yeah and the ball

336
00:16:46,970 --> 00:16:45,329
do you enjoy or is there some no no

337
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:46,980
that's good to hear there wasn't any

338
00:16:58,970 --> 00:16:52,370
fringy stuff good speakers solid stuff I

339
00:17:00,610 --> 00:16:58,980
thought I saw two tinfoil hats once they

340
00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:00,620
probably did that as a joke I'm sure

341
00:17:06,290 --> 00:17:04,230
yeah yeah yeah so the the tone is

342
00:17:08,179 --> 00:17:06,300
certainly not they've got a new director

343
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:08,189
at the Museum and he's done a great job

344
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:12,240
and updating the place and keeping

345
00:17:16,429 --> 00:17:14,130
things running on time and all that sort

346
00:17:18,439 --> 00:17:16,439
of stuff now it was a pleasure I mean

347
00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:18,449
it's I have to take three flights to get

348
00:17:25,370 --> 00:17:22,230
there so it's Detroit oh yeah yeah

349
00:17:27,260 --> 00:17:25,380
that's that's uh oh is it oh my god so

350
00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:27,270
you have to fly three different you have

351
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:28,470
to have two different lay overs

352
00:17:34,130 --> 00:17:31,679
basically yeah I fly from here to

353
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:34,140
Montreal in Montreal of Dallas and

354
00:17:40,580 --> 00:17:38,010
Dallas to Roger oh boy yeah yeah well

355
00:17:42,410 --> 00:17:40,590
I'm in Reverse yeah I really wanted to

356
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:42,420
make it out there I think I told you

357
00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:43,860
earlier just when we chatted for a

358
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:46,950
second I'm over in Russia but you know

359
00:17:49,220 --> 00:17:48,480
the seventieth would have been a great

360
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:49,230
one to go to

361
00:17:53,330 --> 00:17:50,730
but I'll get out there one of these

362
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:53,340
years and you know it should be a lot of

363
00:17:59,390 --> 00:17:55,650
fun catching up you know with a lot of

364
00:18:02,000 --> 00:17:59,400
friends and and it I just have never

365
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:02,010
even been there you know to the town and

366
00:18:08,659 --> 00:18:04,590
I lived in New Mexico at one time and oh

367
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:08,669
you did yeah lived in Los Alamos yeah oh

368
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,840
there's a special place well yeah my my

369
00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:14,880
yes bandolier and all the beautiful

370
00:18:19,549 --> 00:18:17,880
parks around there my sister and

371
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:19,559
brother-in-law he worked at the labs and

372
00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:21,840
I lived there for about four or five

373
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:24,059
months so yeah it's a beautiful area

374
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:27,450
very nice if it can stand the altitude

375
00:18:31,370 --> 00:18:29,730
now yeah it really takes it takes you a

376
00:18:35,690 --> 00:18:31,380
couple weeks to get used to that yeah

377
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:35,700
from what I remember yeah so stand we

378
00:18:39,799 --> 00:18:38,400
had you on I think it was about four or

379
00:18:42,980 --> 00:18:39,809
five months ago something like that I

380
00:18:44,539 --> 00:18:42,990
always loved to have you on and you know

381
00:18:47,450 --> 00:18:44,549
I think you always have a really good

382
00:18:49,789 --> 00:18:47,460
message and one of the things I wanted

383
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:49,799
to talk to you about was of course

384
00:18:54,049 --> 00:18:52,650
Roswell we can get more into that but

385
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:54,059
after that I want to talk to you a

386
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,120
little bit about the document that was

387
00:19:01,549 --> 00:18:59,280
you know came out of Heather Wade's

388
00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:01,559
midnight in the desert I know yeah you

389
00:19:05,030 --> 00:19:03,900
had talked about that but first I want

390
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:05,040
to ask you a little bit more about

391
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:07,730
Roswell what did you think about the

392
00:19:13,250 --> 00:19:11,370
alleged witness Alejandro and I just

393
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:13,260
kind of we sort of poked a couple of

394
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:14,730
holes and some of the things that he

395
00:19:19,789 --> 00:19:16,890
said the new witness that supposedly

396
00:19:22,159 --> 00:19:19,799
came forward and just I don't know what

397
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:22,169
new witness was that okay this is the

398
00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:23,850
one that said he accompanied the police

399
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:26,070
officer and saw the crash on the side of

400
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:29,130
the road so if you hadn't heard about it

401
00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:30,510
I thought it was something that might

402
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:32,790
have been circulating this this last at

403
00:19:37,940 --> 00:19:35,850
law and I've been tied up I was even

404
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:37,950
offline when I was down in Roswell I was

405
00:19:46,430 --> 00:19:42,559
busy all day long and so no I haven't no

406
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:46,440
people better understand I'm my whole

407
00:19:50,299 --> 00:19:48,210
goal is to have facts in hand before

408
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:50,309
putting mouth in gear sure yeah like

409
00:19:56,510 --> 00:19:53,370
express opinions without having data I

410
00:19:57,850 --> 00:19:56,520
did find some data on the new mj-12

411
00:20:00,760 --> 00:19:57,860
documents but

412
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:00,770
but and I barely had time to do this

413
00:20:06,770 --> 00:20:03,299
yeah yeah

414
00:20:10,490 --> 00:20:06,780
but yeah you know digging out facts it's

415
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:10,500
not as easy as it sounds you know and I

416
00:20:16,010 --> 00:20:12,650
see a lot of people in the field who

417
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:16,020
accept claims as if they were evidence

418
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:18,720
but things aren't evidence you need data

419
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:21,210
I need something solid to basically

420
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:23,370
claims on not just because oh it's

421
00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:25,770
unlike a great story you know a lot of

422
00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:27,179
great stories out there that doesn't

423
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:29,070
make them prove and people been writing

424
00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:30,809
science fiction for a long time

425
00:20:35,779 --> 00:20:34,409
yeah and a lot of times Alejandra and I

426
00:20:38,810 --> 00:20:35,789
have brought up and I did with the

427
00:20:41,450 --> 00:20:38,820
guests last week was the fact that the

428
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:41,460
British tabloids seemed to just run with

429
00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:45,210
about anything that pops up and and I

430
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,120
think you know what happens and a lot of

431
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:50,880
what happens these days is you know the

432
00:20:57,529 --> 00:20:54,450
myths do become reality to a lot of

433
00:20:59,570 --> 00:20:57,539
people because yeah it's only you know

434
00:21:01,640 --> 00:20:59,580
the surfaces they're only you know like

435
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:01,650
if you're a person let's just say a

436
00:21:05,330 --> 00:21:03,600
person on the outside will put it that

437
00:21:07,159 --> 00:21:05,340
way someone that doesn't really pay

438
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:07,169
attention to UFOs and you see a story

439
00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:08,760
you're gonna read the story and see it

440
00:21:13,279 --> 00:21:11,820
in the news and think hmm that might you

441
00:21:15,049 --> 00:21:13,289
know that must be real or you know what

442
00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:15,059
I mean it's it's kind of a shame yeah

443
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:16,440
they wouldn't have published that if it

444
00:21:23,149 --> 00:21:17,970
wasn't true would they unfortunately

445
00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:23,159
would if they felt like yeah yeah so

446
00:21:28,909 --> 00:21:25,740
there's a lot of that going on that it's

447
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:28,919
really it's really hard these days

448
00:21:34,669 --> 00:21:30,570
because of that it just seems like

449
00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:34,679
that's it's I want to say it's becoming

450
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:39,630
more and more watered down you know well

451
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,360
here many people have finally recognized

452
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:44,400
the cheese there's a lot of interest in

453
00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:47,010
UFOs that's wrong with this story what

454
00:21:53,810 --> 00:21:51,150
the hell that's not good enough you know

455
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:53,820
it appeals to people maybe but some

456
00:21:59,210 --> 00:21:56,610
people but they believe what they want

457
00:22:00,890 --> 00:21:59,220
to believe I suppose and if it sounds

458
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:00,900
like it's coming from an or feet of

459
00:22:07,730 --> 00:22:04,980
course source then let's go at that of

460
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:07,740
course you know what can I say

461
00:22:13,970 --> 00:22:09,929
I'm a scientist not a science fiction

462
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:13,980
writer yes Stan I'll just let you know

463
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:16,770
we do have questions that do come in to

464
00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:19,770
the chat room we also have a couple of

465
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:22,110
people that have posted some questions

466
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:27,510
up on the forum which I will get to when

467
00:22:33,530 --> 00:22:31,020
I can someone wanted to know about and I

468
00:22:35,260 --> 00:22:33,540
I'm not familiar talk about facts in

469
00:22:37,730 --> 00:22:35,270
hand I don't have the facts in E in here

470
00:22:41,299 --> 00:22:37,740
although I had him on my show recently

471
00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:41,309
but someone wants to know what you think

472
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:44,190
about Kevin Randall's change in position

473
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:47,760
over the years regarding Roswell well

474
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:50,970
I'm not satisfied that it's legitimate I

475
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:53,130
mean he has the right to take any

476
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:55,440
position he feels like but well I

477
00:22:59,030 --> 00:22:57,450
subtract somebody but the other day by

478
00:23:01,070 --> 00:22:59,040
pointing out that Kevin I mean we've

479
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:01,080
known each other for what 20 or more

480
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:04,320
years I suppose but and we've disagreed

481
00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:07,530
for a good deal at that time people

482
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:11,190
forget kevin is a very effective writer

483
00:23:17,150 --> 00:23:13,440
of fiction he's written more than 80

484
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,160
books which is I'm very mostly under

485
00:23:24,610 --> 00:23:18,960
other names now not under his own name

486
00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:24,620
and so his standard is what sounds good

487
00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:29,880
not what is true I mean all fiction

488
00:23:33,140 --> 00:23:32,190
writers I read a lot of fiction I'm not

489
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:33,150
saying there's anything wrong with

490
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:35,760
writing fiction but it's not the same as

491
00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:39,510
nonfiction and there are times when

492
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,630
Kevin surprises me for example he

493
00:23:50,030 --> 00:23:44,640
complained in his first objection to

494
00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:50,040
mj-12 that it says Admiral Roscoe hill

495
00:23:54,049 --> 00:23:52,230
encoder well he was only a Rear Admiral

496
00:23:58,820 --> 00:23:54,059
he would never have called himself

497
00:24:01,700 --> 00:23:58,830
Admiral and the fact of the matter is

498
00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:01,710
that all the military officers on mj-12

499
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:04,950
the generic ranks for use for its

500
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:10,410
standard practice I general good pastor

501
00:24:14,030 --> 00:24:12,960
was Ike staff secretary he was a

502
00:24:18,890 --> 00:24:14,040
brigadier general

503
00:24:20,180 --> 00:24:18,900
I served know Ike very well and so and

504
00:24:21,870 --> 00:24:20,190
when I had meetings at the White House

505
00:24:24,510 --> 00:24:21,880
he would write men

506
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:24,520
it's in comments and so forth did you

507
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:25,690
know the president doesn't write

508
00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:32,940
summaries of meeting and I writing

509
00:24:41,130 --> 00:24:35,230
comments I just lost where I was going

510
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:41,140
with that on anyway at he would list

511
00:24:50,130 --> 00:24:46,170
attendees at meetings including general

512
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:50,140
good pastor he'd sign it brigadier

513
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:53,530
general good pastor I called two

514
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:56,080
different archivists and they said its

515
00:25:00,330 --> 00:24:57,970
standard practice and one pointed out

516
00:25:06,150 --> 00:25:00,340
and I checked and he was right that Ike

517
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:06,160
used generic ranks and you know I have

518
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:07,390
meetings where there were five different

519
00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:11,830
people given generic ranks by that I

520
00:25:17,910 --> 00:25:14,500
mean general or Admiral as opposed to

521
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:17,920
Rear Admiral brigadier general Major

522
00:25:23,910 --> 00:25:19,750
General lieutenant general four-star

523
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:23,920
general general a standard practice now

524
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:26,890
the reason I bring this up kevin was

525
00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:28,480
associated with the military for many

526
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:28,990
years

527
00:25:36,150 --> 00:25:32,890
mmm I give him credit you know he served

528
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:36,160
as a country very well but that was

529
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:39,520
certainly and he even asked me show me

530
00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:41,970
something else were rug Hill encoder

531
00:25:47,310 --> 00:25:45,070
described himself as an admiral another

532
00:25:48,750 --> 00:25:47,320
signature where he signed there is no

533
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:48,760
he'll include her signature on the

534
00:25:54,770 --> 00:25:52,090
document so things like that omit

535
00:25:58,440 --> 00:25:54,780
bothered me over the years and I once

536
00:26:03,000 --> 00:25:58,450
made up a list of 38 false claims that

537
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,010
he had made my you know fact after fact

538
00:26:08,790 --> 00:26:05,440
or fact maybe I should say factoid

539
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:08,800
whatever it is is a factoid by

540
00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:13,050
definition a fact it isn't a fact I

541
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:19,390
don't know so I I can't explain Kevin

542
00:26:24,690 --> 00:26:21,730
like I say he's a very successful writer

543
00:26:26,850 --> 00:26:24,700
and I envy him that I haven't written

544
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:26,860
any fiction my name is only on six books

545
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:28,690
that people asked me for four words for

546
00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:29,790
their books

547
00:26:37,770 --> 00:26:35,830
the same mm-hmm but we have been at odds

548
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:37,780
about many aspects of it and we just

549
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:39,990
seem to have different standards and

550
00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:42,370
well this is another thing he was

551
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:44,950
touting a frank cathlin as an

552
00:26:51,270 --> 00:26:48,850
outstanding witness and it turns out

553
00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:51,280
that Frank didn't witness anything of

554
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:53,740
Rosewall I made all kinds of claims

555
00:27:00,060 --> 00:26:56,770
which had no basis in fact and it was

556
00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:00,070
pretty obvious that they didn't so we

557
00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:02,230
have disagreed because we come at the

558
00:27:12,770 --> 00:27:05,980
problem differently mm-hmm

559
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:12,780
speaking of this whole topic Roswell the

560
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:17,170
I would consider that you you are the

561
00:27:23,010 --> 00:27:20,050
person that basically uncovered this

562
00:27:25,410 --> 00:27:23,020
forgotten story you know I'm the

563
00:27:27,150 --> 00:27:25,420
original civilian investigator of the

564
00:27:29,130 --> 00:27:27,160
Roswell incident that's how I put it

565
00:27:31,020 --> 00:27:29,140
yeah I notice I said that carefully and

566
00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:31,030
not the original investigator because

567
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:32,200
the government was doing a lot of

568
00:27:36,210 --> 00:27:34,570
investigating they had a real problem on

569
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:36,220
their hands what the heck is going on

570
00:27:42,210 --> 00:27:39,610
here but you know I'm from the public's

571
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:42,220
viewpoint it was a 2-day story right

572
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,510
here today gone tomorrow

573
00:27:49,950 --> 00:27:46,240
oh yeah and it was only when I got

574
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:49,960
involved in the web 70s and then I had a

575
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:54,610
false start it's kind of crazy I was

576
00:28:02,850 --> 00:27:58,240
living in California talked to a what he

577
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:02,860
called Ranger forest ranger and a great

578
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:04,270
sighting you know those guys are up in

579
00:28:08,790 --> 00:28:06,610
the mountains and so forth and he told

580
00:28:11,450 --> 00:28:08,800
me you really oughta talk to my mom she

581
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:11,460
had a great say sighting and Albuquerque

582
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:14,470
okay so I called his mom who was Lydia

583
00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:17,650
sleppy and she worked at a radio station

584
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:22,270
I had a Roswell affiliate and her

585
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:25,210
station was called by somebody the guy

586
00:28:31,170 --> 00:28:29,110
in Roswell dictating a story that she

587
00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:31,180
was a secretary basically not in the

588
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:34,030
journalists and he wanted to put it out

589
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,770
on the wire and the Roswell station

590
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:38,080
wasn't on the news wire and so he's

591
00:28:41,970 --> 00:28:39,850
dictating the story and and something

592
00:28:43,370 --> 00:28:41,980
happened a bell rang whatever it was and

593
00:28:46,130 --> 00:28:43,380
there was a transmission

594
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:46,140
continue this transmission right and she

595
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:47,910
said what should I do and the guy says

596
00:28:54,980 --> 00:28:53,310
stop well I talked to her she told me

597
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:54,990
her story he gave me some names of some

598
00:28:59,270 --> 00:28:57,570
people this what happened 47 you

599
00:29:02,840 --> 00:28:59,280
understand and I'm talking to her in

600
00:29:04,220 --> 00:29:02,850
about 74 so it's a long time later and I

601
00:29:06,590 --> 00:29:04,230
found some of the people but I got

602
00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:06,600
nowhere was a dead end I mean oh yeah I

603
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:08,190
was there but I don't remember the

604
00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:11,490
details etc etc so okay it's sitting in

605
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,940
the background and then like I won't say

606
00:29:18,410 --> 00:29:16,320
by accident I was in Baton Rouge

607
00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:18,420
Louisiana to give a lecture at Louisiana

608
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:23,550
State University 1978 and the kitchen

609
00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:25,530
was the university had taken to me the

610
00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:27,960
big meaty to the biggest station in town

611
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:30,750
television station and I was scheduled

612
00:29:37,790 --> 00:29:33,810
to do three interviews I guess they were

613
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:37,800
shorter news that day I did the first

614
00:29:42,260 --> 00:29:39,510
two and the third reporter was nowhere

615
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:42,270
to be found and the station manager is

616
00:29:47,150 --> 00:29:43,770
looking at his watch he's giving me

617
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:47,160
coffee and out of the blue he said

618
00:29:51,140 --> 00:29:49,890
something that was provocative he said

619
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:51,150
you know the guy you really ought to

620
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:53,970
talk to is Jesse Marcel really an

621
00:29:58,340 --> 00:29:55,970
investigator that I am I said who's he

622
00:30:00,350 --> 00:29:58,350
he handled wreckage on one of those

623
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:00,360
saucers you're interested in he was in

624
00:30:04,580 --> 00:30:03,210
the military what you know he wasn't

625
00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:04,590
making a joke and there was nobody

626
00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:07,860
around he was clearly being serious well

627
00:30:11,390 --> 00:30:09,480
what do you know about him he lives in

628
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:11,400
Houma I didn't know where Houma was I

629
00:30:18,620 --> 00:30:14,690
was there later to talk to Jesse but I

630
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:18,630
followed up the reporter showed up I did

631
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:20,370
the interview was busy the rest of the

632
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:22,050
day the talk went very well that night

633
00:30:27,260 --> 00:30:25,530
big crowd no nasty noisy negative is

634
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:27,270
given me a hard time or anything like

635
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:29,310
that so the next morning from the

636
00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:32,720
airport I called information in Houma

637
00:30:36,980 --> 00:30:35,340
now you understand that there are today

638
00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:36,990
people who think that the way you find

639
00:30:40,910 --> 00:30:38,940
phone numbers is go on the Internet yeah

640
00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:40,920
well back then you called information

641
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:44,340
yeah we're one one yeah yeah and the

642
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:48,090
nice thing was that oftentimes the the

643
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:50,010
person you've got lived in the area and

644
00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:51,330
you could say is that a nice part of

645
00:30:54,860 --> 00:30:52,980
town and things like that you could

646
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:54,870
learn quite a bit that way they're not a

647
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,000
Drupal

648
00:31:01,150 --> 00:30:58,720
so anyway I got a number for Jesse I

649
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:01,160
explained that I was a nuclear physicist

650
00:31:09,550 --> 00:31:04,610
had been investigating UFOs at that time

651
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:09,560
for 10 years and you know I've been

652
00:31:15,550 --> 00:31:14,510
talking to his name was Alan but the guy

653
00:31:18,190 --> 00:31:15,560
had a television station

654
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:18,200
oh yeah I know him they were ham radio

655
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:21,170
buddies and I found out later when I

656
00:31:28,180 --> 00:31:25,250
asked Jesse what he or I asked allowing

657
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:28,190
what jesse had told them and told them

658
00:31:32,050 --> 00:31:30,290
anything when when he asked Jesse just

659
00:31:34,510 --> 00:31:32,060
said I can't talk about that what he had

660
00:31:37,710 --> 00:31:34,520
done was seen the article in the

661
00:31:40,750 --> 00:31:37,720
newspaper the New Orleans times-picayune

662
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:40,760
I think it's called a weird name for a

663
00:31:46,930 --> 00:31:44,510
newspaper but anyway back then when you

664
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:46,940
mentioned the GI he normally put what

665
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:49,970
town his hometown so that's how the two

666
00:31:56,590 --> 00:31:53,810
made contact and so forth so he told me

667
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:56,600
a story and I was very impressed on has

668
00:32:04,840 --> 00:31:59,840
a no player guy I mean here we have the

669
00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:04,850
the intelligence officer for the only

670
00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:07,820
atomic bombing group in the world

671
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:11,480
in 1947 now you don't get to be that by

672
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:15,200
being a dink I mean you know very

673
00:32:20,830 --> 00:32:18,490
important you know it's kind of crazy

674
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:20,840
once in England I was on a panel and

675
00:32:25,210 --> 00:32:22,130
there was an English astronomer there

676
00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:25,220
why would an alien go to New Mexico

677
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:28,310
there's nothing there but sand and I

678
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:30,080
asked him well have you ever been there

679
00:32:34,780 --> 00:32:32,810
well no and then you're not aware that

680
00:32:36,610 --> 00:32:34,790
two of the three nuclear weapons lives

681
00:32:38,650 --> 00:32:36,620
in the United States are in New Mexico

682
00:32:42,010 --> 00:32:38,660
that the first atomic bomb was exploded

683
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:42,020
at Trinity site in New Mexico that White

684
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:43,490
Sands Missile Range is where we fired

685
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:45,530
all our captured German v2 rocket

686
00:32:50,650 --> 00:32:48,170
doesn't wear any of that the reason

687
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,660
you've lit off bombs and fire rockets is

688
00:32:55,930 --> 00:32:52,640
there aren't many people in New Mexico's

689
00:32:58,420 --> 00:32:55,940
a lot of land a lot of sand in need but

690
00:33:00,550 --> 00:32:58,430
you can't do those things testing

691
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:00,560
nuclear weapons and so forth when there

692
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:02,720
are a lot of people around you know it's

693
00:33:08,010 --> 00:33:06,050
not very convenient the contrast here to

694
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:08,020
me I grew up in New Jersey

695
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:10,210
and now New Jersey has its the most

696
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:12,510
densely populated of all the states

697
00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:15,730
eight million people in eight thousand

698
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:21,150
the population density is about 40 times

699
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:28,210
what it is in New Mexico so it's kind of

700
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:31,810
crazy New Mexico is a special sort of

701
00:33:41,790 --> 00:33:39,600
place and I think that Roswell was a

702
00:33:45,230 --> 00:33:41,800
historic event but it also as a

703
00:33:48,180 --> 00:33:45,240
challenge misses two years after the war

704
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:48,190
mm-hmm which ended because of an atomic

705
00:33:52,740 --> 00:33:50,010
bomb when was the first test and

706
00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:52,750
incidentally I for people who think Oh

707
00:33:58,050 --> 00:33:54,160
governments wouldn't lie to us would

708
00:34:01,710 --> 00:33:58,060
they well first atomic bomb test July

709
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:01,720
16th like it was 1945 was seen from a

710
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,240
hundred miles away an awful big

711
00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:07,440
explosion and the ships were again

712
00:34:12,420 --> 00:34:10,030
telephone calls you know what happened I

713
00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:12,430
saw this crazy thing 5:30 in the morning

714
00:34:16,770 --> 00:34:14,350
you understand but in New Mexico it's

715
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:16,780
not uncommon for people to get up early

716
00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:18,130
because it gets pretty conquering the

717
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:20,710
day you got up over 100 in Roswell every

718
00:34:31,410 --> 00:34:26,050
day last week you know I and they they

719
00:34:34,110 --> 00:34:31,420
put out it I'm just a lie a cover story

720
00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:34,120
that sounds much better

721
00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:36,040
an ammunition dump had blown up and

722
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:37,660
fortunately nobody was hurt

723
00:34:43,170 --> 00:34:40,480
three weeks later after Hiroshima and

724
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:43,180
Nagasaki they finally admitted what it

725
00:34:49,710 --> 00:34:47,440
was so government agencies and I don't

726
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:49,720
blame them for lying it's like they were

727
00:34:54,870 --> 00:34:52,270
very careful not warning the Japanese

728
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:54,880
about dropping a horrible bomb on them

729
00:34:58,620 --> 00:34:56,050
because they were afraid they'd move

730
00:35:01,650 --> 00:34:58,630
prisoners of war they're perfectly good

731
00:35:04,050 --> 00:35:01,660
reason for not to you know not saying

732
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,060
you watch what we do to you oh sure

733
00:35:08,820 --> 00:35:06,640
we'll put our prisoners there then drop

734
00:35:10,730 --> 00:35:08,830
your bomb you know there were serious

735
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:10,740
concerns about these things

736
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:18,960
so anyway the the question of the

737
00:35:24,670 --> 00:35:21,330
meaning is also you know a little

738
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:24,680
question do these guys mean us harm

739
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:27,450
mm-hmm what the government didn't know

740
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:28,740
what they wanted they didn't know where

741
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:30,960
they were from what they did know is

742
00:35:39,650 --> 00:35:33,599
that they had technology Kenneth Arnold

743
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:39,660
sighting was June 24th 1947 Raja was

744
00:35:44,839 --> 00:35:42,330
less than two weeks later and there were

745
00:35:47,060 --> 00:35:44,849
about a thousand sightings we now know

746
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:47,070
and between those two periods of time

747
00:35:54,260 --> 00:35:50,490
where there really don't many yeah we

748
00:35:56,570 --> 00:35:54,270
didn't know it well even today you

749
00:35:59,359 --> 00:35:56,580
realize that you find gets over 500

750
00:36:01,220 --> 00:35:59,369
sighting reports a month mm-hmm and I've

751
00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:01,230
had people say well I haven't heard

752
00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:02,609
anything about any sightings in the last

753
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:04,680
few months you didn't hear about it but

754
00:36:11,390 --> 00:36:09,510
it was they were there mmm so it was the

755
00:36:14,540 --> 00:36:11,400
government had to decide what do we do

756
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:14,550
and the thing is okay they recovered

757
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:17,280
breakage that doesn't take out the darn

758
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:19,650
thing works does it oh that's nice

759
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:21,330
looking equipment what does it do what's

760
00:36:27,099 --> 00:36:22,710
it made out of you know how can we

761
00:36:30,829 --> 00:36:27,109
duplicate it etc etc it's not easy and

762
00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:30,839
certainly even today should we put out

763
00:36:37,490 --> 00:36:33,180
on the table what we have learned from

764
00:36:42,170 --> 00:36:37,500
examination of records at Roswell Aztec

765
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:42,180
and Kecksburg without the Russians and

766
00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:45,119
Chinese putting out what they know be

767
00:36:48,589 --> 00:36:47,700
damn foolish you know because we may

768
00:36:50,030 --> 00:36:48,599
have learned some things that they

769
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:50,040
haven't learned we'd like to know what

770
00:36:55,579 --> 00:36:53,970
they know there's a overwhelming thing

771
00:36:58,579 --> 00:36:55,589
about a flying saucer

772
00:37:01,490 --> 00:36:58,589
it is potential for military utilization

773
00:37:03,290 --> 00:37:01,500
of that technology think about it the

774
00:37:08,780 --> 00:37:03,300
military budget on planet Earth this

775
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:08,790
year a trillion dollars I mean you know

776
00:37:12,890 --> 00:37:10,560
it's a sad tale look how many kids died

777
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:12,900
of starvation last year last week this

778
00:37:19,220 --> 00:37:15,930
month right but I'm saying it's clear

779
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:19,230
that military applications are of great

780
00:37:24,210 --> 00:37:20,650
significance

781
00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:24,220
to governments and secrecy is of great

782
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:27,430
significance and don't tell me I have

783
00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:28,930
people tell me all weekend in today's

784
00:37:33,539 --> 00:37:31,630
world with YouTube and the Internet you

785
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:33,549
can't keep secrets of course you can we

786
00:37:37,529 --> 00:37:36,130
don't publish classified documents on

787
00:37:39,809 --> 00:37:37,539
the Internet

788
00:37:43,319 --> 00:37:39,819
I'm not saying there aren't occasional

789
00:37:46,349 --> 00:37:43,329
slips by people but secrets are easy to

790
00:37:49,049 --> 00:37:46,359
keep need-to-know an appropriate

791
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:49,059
security level when you put them

792
00:37:53,870 --> 00:37:51,609
together and they scare the hell Donny I

793
00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:53,880
worked under security for 14 years and

794
00:37:58,799 --> 00:37:57,160
one time I was giving a presentation and

795
00:38:01,140 --> 00:37:58,809
my slides weren't ready when they were

796
00:38:03,930 --> 00:38:01,150
supposed to be ready so they made me a

797
00:38:06,839 --> 00:38:03,940
special courier to carry these

798
00:38:09,359 --> 00:38:06,849
classified slides and they sat me down

799
00:38:11,849 --> 00:38:09,369
and stressed you know these doctor these

800
00:38:15,569 --> 00:38:11,859
slides stay with you not in the trunk of

801
00:38:17,789 --> 00:38:15,579
a car that you're driving with you and

802
00:38:19,319 --> 00:38:17,799
if we need your itinerary because if the

803
00:38:20,819 --> 00:38:19,329
plane crashes we're going after the

804
00:38:26,089 --> 00:38:20,829
classified material we don't care about

805
00:38:30,809 --> 00:38:26,099
you I was glad to get rid of the post

806
00:38:33,029 --> 00:38:30,819
but I I get people tell me oh well all

807
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:33,039
those guys the mj-12 people would have

808
00:38:37,309 --> 00:38:35,049
told their wives what they were doing no

809
00:38:39,839 --> 00:38:37,319
I never told my wife anything classified

810
00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:39,849
I'd be breaking the rules and you don't

811
00:38:42,930 --> 00:38:41,230
know where the spies are and I can't

812
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:42,940
control what she says she wouldn't know

813
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:44,170
it was hurting anybody

814
00:38:49,890 --> 00:38:48,160
you know so security doesn't work when

815
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:49,900
you turn on YouTube you may see a lot of

816
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:51,490
interesting stuff and so on it may even

817
00:38:57,420 --> 00:38:54,910
be true but you're not seeing cryolite

818
00:38:59,970 --> 00:38:57,430
stuff and anybody who thinks secrets

819
00:39:03,089 --> 00:38:59,980
can't be get big ones but the first

820
00:39:06,029 --> 00:39:03,099
thing the first spy satellite was the

821
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:06,039
corona spy satellite Corona is a little

822
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,250
town in New Mexico incident also a

823
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:11,920
Toyota Corona I drove several of them

824
00:39:20,549 --> 00:39:18,010
but I they that satellite we we knew

825
00:39:23,010 --> 00:39:20,559
that the u2 had a limited life the spy

826
00:39:24,450 --> 00:39:23,020
plane you know because the Russians were

827
00:39:25,740 --> 00:39:24,460
getting better and eventually they did

828
00:39:29,250 --> 00:39:25,750
not gone down

829
00:39:32,490 --> 00:39:29,260
I the corona spots spice at like the

830
00:39:37,020 --> 00:39:32,500
first 12 launches were done in secrecy

831
00:39:39,570 --> 00:39:37,030
in secret and we're failures that's a

832
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:39,580
lot of money 12 spy satellite launches

833
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:41,680
this is back in the year early sixties

834
00:39:47,850 --> 00:39:44,410
or late fifties really wonders we give

835
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:47,860
up really well they didn't run out of

836
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:51,040
money apparently nobody knows what

837
00:39:57,860 --> 00:39:55,510
you're spendin the 13th satellite got

838
00:40:00,930 --> 00:39:57,870
more data about Soviet military

839
00:40:02,220 --> 00:40:00,940
construction it's pretty hard to know

840
00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:02,230
what's going on over there it's an

841
00:40:06,330 --> 00:40:04,270
awfully good country you know and who

842
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:06,340
knows what they're doing got more data

843
00:40:12,420 --> 00:40:09,280
than all the u2 flights had preceded it

844
00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:12,430
do you think we'd triumph we trumpeted

845
00:40:19,290 --> 00:40:15,960
you'll pardon the expression that great

846
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:19,300
breakthrough know that satellite was

847
00:40:22,070 --> 00:40:21,010
classified for 30 years and we didn't

848
00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:22,080
talk about it

849
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:24,430
Lockheed developed the stealth aircraft

850
00:40:31,410 --> 00:40:26,560
it have costed ten billion dollars over

851
00:40:35,610 --> 00:40:31,420
ten years in secret so and there's a

852
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:35,620
whole bunch more programs well also what

853
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:38,170
one of the myths around is that research

854
00:40:43,170 --> 00:40:40,000
is what's done when you work at a

855
00:40:45,810 --> 00:40:43,180
university in academia right well

856
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:45,820
sometimes but when I was working on

857
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:51,550
nuclear airplanes in 1958 a General

858
00:40:56,670 --> 00:40:53,440
Electric our budget that here was a

859
00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:56,680
hundred million dollars employed 3400

860
00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:58,450
people 1100 of them more engineers and

861
00:41:03,930 --> 00:41:00,640
scientists there's one six professors

862
00:41:06,570 --> 00:41:03,940
and 20 grad students hmm it's a huge

863
00:41:10,110 --> 00:41:06,580
effort and was great fun until they

864
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:10,120
canceled the program you know I worked

865
00:41:13,770 --> 00:41:12,130
on a lot of cancelled programs but well

866
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:13,780
I'm saying if the public doesn't seem to

867
00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:16,930
have much recognition of how big these

868
00:41:21,180 --> 00:41:19,030
programs can be how expensive they can

869
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:21,190
be and frankly how productive look the

870
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:23,890
Manhattan Project you know that five

871
00:41:28,050 --> 00:41:26,410
percent of all the electricity being

872
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:28,060
produced in the United States in the

873
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:31,090
last two years of the war went for

874
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:33,490
pushing separating uranium isotopes

875
00:41:38,310 --> 00:41:36,610
pumping uranium hexafluoride through big

876
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:38,320
sheets of metal with little holes in it

877
00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:39,810
and u-235 goes through

878
00:41:45,110 --> 00:41:43,140
faster so eventually 5% of all the power

879
00:41:48,140 --> 00:41:45,120
in the United States went into that maze

880
00:41:52,490 --> 00:41:48,150
and see I mean that's a lot of dope

881
00:41:54,860 --> 00:41:52,500
that's and so what I'm saying it we have

882
00:41:58,060 --> 00:41:54,870
many examples of projects that went on

883
00:42:00,170 --> 00:41:58,070
I'm not saying they were all sensible or

884
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:00,180
appropriate or whatever many programs

885
00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:02,130
might cancel because you went for a

886
00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:03,990
while I'm gonna work what's what's

887
00:42:09,740 --> 00:42:06,870
stopping or somebody else came along

888
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:09,750
with a better story but it's important

889
00:42:18,380 --> 00:42:13,290
to realize that secrets can be kept and

890
00:42:21,230 --> 00:42:18,390
that there's a need for secrecy oh oh

891
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:21,240
yeah you know if your buddy knows what

892
00:42:26,060 --> 00:42:23,130
you're if your enemy knows what you're

893
00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:26,070
doing he's in a much better position to

894
00:42:31,460 --> 00:42:27,900
stop you from doing it when the chips

895
00:42:33,860 --> 00:42:31,470
are down mmm you know and that that's

896
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:33,870
more freedom but this planet is doing a

897
00:42:37,850 --> 00:42:36,000
lot about warfare the United States

898
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:37,860
spends more than what the next 15

899
00:42:41,780 --> 00:42:41,010
countries together right yeah something

900
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:41,790
like that

901
00:42:47,780 --> 00:42:44,610
so obviously is of a great significance

902
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:47,790
and importance and so organs so people

903
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:48,960
ask me don't you think we are entitled

904
00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:51,450
to know everything no I don't think that

905
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:52,830
I think there is a national security

906
00:42:59,780 --> 00:42:55,770
aspect which makes me a strange person

907
00:43:02,150 --> 00:42:59,790
to some people he's for secrecy as

908
00:43:04,220 --> 00:43:02,160
appropriate yes mm-hmm

909
00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:04,230
yeah when it actually comes to you know

910
00:43:07,730 --> 00:43:07,110
security national security I totally get

911
00:43:12,850 --> 00:43:07,740
that

912
00:43:17,090 --> 00:43:12,860
going back to Jesse Marcel there's a

913
00:43:19,390 --> 00:43:17,100
question that I've never heard on the

914
00:43:25,210 --> 00:43:19,400
this on the message board and it says

915
00:43:27,890 --> 00:43:25,220
that did Jesse Marcel likely lie in

916
00:43:30,410 --> 00:43:27,900
interviews with UFO researchers on his

917
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:30,420
background education and status as a

918
00:43:36,220 --> 00:43:32,810
pilot is that anything you've ever heard

919
00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:36,230
well there are people who make wild

920
00:43:45,490 --> 00:43:42,420
claims the Mega Man example people say

921
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:45,500
he flew I forget how many miles it was

922
00:43:50,750 --> 00:43:48,510
he didn't say he was flying the airplane

923
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:50,760
I mean I'm a

924
00:43:57,130 --> 00:43:53,010
frequent flyer i just flown i'm a

925
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:57,140
million more milder on Air Canada and

926
00:44:04,130 --> 00:44:00,240
Delta that doesn't mean I flew any of

927
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:04,140
those airplanes but that's you see this

928
00:44:11,090 --> 00:44:08,970
subtle difference again I refer to the

929
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:11,100
fact that even though we didn't go to

930
00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:13,050
West Point and Colonel Blanchard the

931
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:15,390
base commander did go to West Point and

932
00:44:21,980 --> 00:44:19,520
general Ramey did Blanchard's boss and

933
00:44:24,859 --> 00:44:21,990
Thomas Jefferson DuBose and was his

934
00:44:26,930 --> 00:44:24,869
adjutant I spoke with him I'm too late

935
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:26,940
to talk to Blanchard and Ramey they were

936
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:28,290
dead I don't know how to cross that

937
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:36,450
barrier some people and so is that your

938
00:44:43,460 --> 00:44:42,090
phone oh not my phone no it's it's uh it

939
00:44:48,290 --> 00:44:43,470
sounds like in the background but we'll

940
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:48,300
just continue that's okay okay let me

941
00:44:58,410 --> 00:44:50,010
pick that up for just a second sure yeah

942
00:45:03,210 --> 00:45:01,109
we alright somebody trying to sell me

943
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:03,220
something like yeah yeah yeah the other

944
00:45:12,690 --> 00:45:07,119
line okay yeah I forgot I got two phones

945
00:45:14,460 --> 00:45:12,700
here I don't have one to each year I've

946
00:45:17,279 --> 00:45:14,470
heard of people doing that but I am NOT

947
00:45:19,799 --> 00:45:17,289
able to do that yeah so what I'm saying

948
00:45:22,019 --> 00:45:19,809
is I was I did one of the few

949
00:45:26,130 --> 00:45:22,029
researchers who actually I was in

950
00:45:30,690 --> 00:45:26,140
Jesse's home and beautiful down in Houma

951
00:45:32,789 --> 00:45:30,700
Louisiana I was in his son's home Jesse

952
00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:32,799
Jr is medical that was a medical doctor

953
00:45:40,049 --> 00:45:36,190
died a couple years back was a flight

954
00:45:43,019 --> 00:45:40,059
surgeon served we do believe he was

955
00:45:44,730 --> 00:45:43,029
called back in at age 68 blastro be a

956
00:45:47,940 --> 00:45:44,740
helicopter pilot in the Middle East

957
00:45:51,180 --> 00:45:47,950
amazing guy yeah I was in his home in

958
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:51,190
Montana greatest respect for both of

959
00:45:57,289 --> 00:45:55,119
them but my point is I people have

960
00:45:59,849 --> 00:45:57,299
levelled all kinds of accusations

961
00:46:03,390 --> 00:45:59,859
everybody involved with all this I mean

962
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:03,400
one guy called Colonel Blanchard oh he

963
00:46:12,509 --> 00:46:07,410
was a loose cannon he was a big guy

964
00:46:16,499 --> 00:46:12,519
whiteshirt on but as indication that

965
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:16,509
that's a hasty judgment he got four more

966
00:46:22,769 --> 00:46:20,710
promotions was a four-star general and

967
00:46:24,660 --> 00:46:22,779
vice chief of staff of the Air Force

968
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:24,670
when he died of a massive heart attack

969
00:46:29,309 --> 00:46:27,730
at the Pentagon in the mid 60s now each

970
00:46:32,249 --> 00:46:29,319
one of those promotions had to be

971
00:46:37,529 --> 00:46:32,259
approved by Congress and along the way

972
00:46:40,890 --> 00:46:37,539
he oversaw the the Air Corps guys with

973
00:46:43,529 --> 00:46:40,900
the nuclear weapons thousands of nuclear

974
00:46:44,759 --> 00:46:43,539
weapons under his control we're supposed

975
00:46:46,499 --> 00:46:44,769
to believe that the government is so

976
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:46,509
incompetent that they picked the loose

977
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:49,210
can and do a job like that I don't

978
00:46:53,859 --> 00:46:51,410
believe it

979
00:46:57,339 --> 00:46:53,869
I did talk to Blanchard's daughter and

980
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:57,349
two sons infinitely but I so I mean

981
00:47:00,730 --> 00:46:58,880
that's the kind of thing that you hear

982
00:47:01,410 --> 00:47:00,740
it sounds great oh he was just a loose

983
00:47:06,970 --> 00:47:01,420
cannon

984
00:47:12,099 --> 00:47:06,980
really but the evidence doesn't indicate

985
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,109
that and there been charges made about

986
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:14,960
many of the people involved because it's

987
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:17,839
easier to to do that than to do your

988
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:21,890
research you know I get people who never

989
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:23,690
talk to any of the key people but they

990
00:47:29,319 --> 00:47:25,970
know what the truth is and who don't

991
00:47:32,319 --> 00:47:29,329
I've been to 20 archives and you know

992
00:47:34,539 --> 00:47:32,329
the classic example of that mr. Philip

993
00:47:37,509 --> 00:47:34,549
jet class senior avionics editor for

994
00:47:39,509 --> 00:47:37,519
Aviation Week and space technology he

995
00:47:42,370 --> 00:47:39,519
said every sighting has a prosaic

996
00:47:46,569 --> 00:47:42,380
explanation now one of the mj-12

997
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:46,579
documents little just a paragraph memo

998
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:50,450
from Bobby Cutler who was Ike's national

999
00:47:59,460 --> 00:47:56,480
security adviser uh to general Nathan

1000
00:48:02,049 --> 00:47:59,470
twining who was a member of mj-12 and

1001
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:02,059
Phil class says well obviously you

1002
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:04,609
didn't notice that that documents done

1003
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:07,970
in the large pipe type but the National

1004
00:48:13,420 --> 00:48:10,250
Security Council says and his see at the

1005
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:13,430
top used only elite type and I got nine

1006
00:48:19,650 --> 00:48:15,650
samples to prove it and he says to me in

1007
00:48:22,269 --> 00:48:19,660
a letter making much noise about it I

1008
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:22,279
challenge you to find any other genuine

1009
00:48:27,130 --> 00:48:24,319
documents not on the same size and style

1010
00:48:31,630 --> 00:48:27,140
type and I'll give you $100 each up to a

1011
00:48:35,410 --> 00:48:31,640
maximum of a thousand ten documents and

1012
00:48:38,410 --> 00:48:35,420
I looked at my files I found 20 like a

1013
00:48:40,299 --> 00:48:38,420
type documents very quickly but they

1014
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:40,309
didn't meet all this criteria at a list

1015
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:41,930
of things that they're to be true but I

1016
00:48:47,740 --> 00:48:44,960
was going to the Truman library so I dug

1017
00:48:49,690 --> 00:48:47,750
things out or to the Eisenhower library

1018
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:49,700
sorry I went I go to both on the same

1019
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:53,930
trip normally and Ivan found 14

1020
00:48:58,240 --> 00:48:56,240
that met all his criteria sent him

1021
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:58,250
copies in an invoice for a thousand

1022
00:49:03,819 --> 00:49:01,760
dollars and he paid me nice I night and

1023
00:49:07,299 --> 00:49:03,829
he got mannered and hacked when I

1024
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:07,309
included a copy of his cheque to me in a

1025
00:49:12,579 --> 00:49:09,890
book he was gonna sue me and all that

1026
00:49:16,089 --> 00:49:12,589
stuff and I wrote him filled you sent me

1027
00:49:18,069 --> 00:49:16,099
a cheque izx did the bank cash the

1028
00:49:20,290 --> 00:49:18,079
cheque I can do whatever I darn pleased

1029
00:49:21,940 --> 00:49:20,300
with the Xerox and he shut up but here's

1030
00:49:25,329 --> 00:49:21,950
the kicker I didn't know it until after

1031
00:49:26,859 --> 00:49:25,339
this he had never been to the Eisenhower

1032
00:49:29,799 --> 00:49:26,869
library hmm

1033
00:49:31,569 --> 00:49:29,809
I spent weeks there I mean that's

1034
00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:31,579
typical of the intellectual bankruptcy

1035
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:35,660
of the pseudoscience of anti ufology and

1036
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:39,770
it means you have to watch out and my

1037
00:49:46,140 --> 00:49:42,290
latest book with Kathleen Martin fact

1038
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:46,150
fiction and flying saucers we explore

1039
00:49:50,849 --> 00:49:48,559
especially three people dr. Edward you

1040
00:49:53,260 --> 00:49:50,859
Condon great physicist who headed the

1041
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:53,270
Condon study at University of Colorado

1042
00:49:58,660 --> 00:49:57,290
and dr. Donald Menzel and Phil Christ

1043
00:50:01,260 --> 00:49:58,670
and trying to figure out why did these

1044
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:01,270
people say the dumb things they did

1045
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:03,770
Condon look our physicist he was

1046
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:06,650
presently American Physical Society at

1047
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:10,010
an enviable record and yet he was

1048
00:50:14,740 --> 00:50:12,770
ridiculous enough to say we can be sure

1049
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:14,750
that there won't be alien visitations

1050
00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:18,530
for at least 10,000 years you know who

1051
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:19,910
can look ten thousand years into the

1052
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:22,160
hundred years into the future you know

1053
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:24,890
and why was John oh just on that that

1054
00:50:29,319 --> 00:50:26,720
matter how why would that make a

1055
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:29,329
difference anyway because you know the

1056
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:33,410
way you know the species would evolve on

1057
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:36,250
different planets is anyone's guess

1058
00:50:44,530 --> 00:50:39,200
you're right about that and I don't do

1059
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:44,540
anything on you know with Mendel at

1060
00:50:49,500 --> 00:50:47,089
least I found the reason here here we

1061
00:50:52,270 --> 00:50:49,510
have a Harvard University professor

1062
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:52,280
chairman of the astronomy department at

1063
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:54,770
Harvard now it's pretty darn clear you

1064
00:51:01,120 --> 00:50:57,890
don't need a security clearance and the

1065
00:51:03,470 --> 00:51:01,130
Astronomy Department so why was he broke

1066
00:51:06,050 --> 00:51:03,480
three anti UFO books

1067
00:51:08,780 --> 00:51:06,060
he proceeded class as the leading

1068
00:51:10,670 --> 00:51:08,790
skeptic debunker is a much better word a

1069
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:10,680
skeptic says I don't know a debugger

1070
00:51:15,470 --> 00:51:12,170
says oh I know there's nothing to that

1071
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:15,480
anyway it's a long story which is in my

1072
00:51:20,660 --> 00:51:17,490
books but I won't would such as top

1073
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:20,670
secret magic all about majestico but the

1074
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:21,810
reason for him

1075
00:51:28,580 --> 00:51:25,680
I found out much to my surprise was that

1076
00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:28,590
it turns out I found a letter from him

1077
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:30,750
to President Kennedy

1078
00:51:36,109 --> 00:51:33,660
dear jack they knew each other quite

1079
00:51:40,190 --> 00:51:36,119
well and he said there's one area this

1080
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:40,200
is after Jack's election he would have

1081
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:41,760
been on the Board of Overseers of

1082
00:51:47,390 --> 00:51:43,680
Harvard and his area of interest was

1083
00:51:50,030 --> 00:51:47,400
astronomy and that's how we dealt with

1084
00:51:52,340 --> 00:51:50,040
there got to know Mendel this before it

1085
00:51:53,570 --> 00:51:52,350
was president and they wouldn't even

1086
00:51:58,370 --> 00:51:53,580
have breakfast together

1087
00:51:59,570 --> 00:51:58,380
I and I found I had your permission with

1088
00:52:01,870 --> 00:51:59,580
three different people to look at his

1089
00:52:04,940 --> 00:52:01,880
papers I saw a letter from an attorney

1090
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,950
to another member of mj-12 thanking him

1091
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:06,720
for all his help in getting Dom Mendel

1092
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:09,570
often charges of disloyalty I mean after

1093
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:11,520
all he led an Eclipse expedition to

1094
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:14,609
Russia in the mid 30s obviously he's not

1095
00:52:20,510 --> 00:52:17,250
a faithful American what nonsense

1096
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:20,520
anyway I wound up going to the Harvard

1097
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:21,930
archives after getting permission from

1098
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:25,040
three people and there's a letter from

1099
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:30,210
Menzel to Kennedy saying there's one

1100
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:32,250
area I may be of assistance to you it's

1101
00:52:38,330 --> 00:52:33,930
with regard to the huge National

1102
00:52:40,460 --> 00:52:38,340
Security Agency NSA ah when we are

1103
00:52:42,859 --> 00:52:40,470
properly cleared to each other I can

1104
00:52:48,290 --> 00:52:42,869
tell you more I've been associated with

1105
00:52:50,420 --> 00:52:48,300
them for 30 years what and he turns out

1106
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:50,430
he did work for the CIA did all kinds of

1107
00:52:53,390 --> 00:52:53,010
classified work hmm that nobody knew

1108
00:52:58,730 --> 00:52:53,400
about

1109
00:53:02,540 --> 00:52:58,740
because there are two special issues of

1110
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:02,550
sky and telescope dedicated to Donald

1111
00:53:06,019 --> 00:53:05,040
Menzel the first was on the at the point

1112
00:53:07,489 --> 00:53:06,029
of his death

1113
00:53:09,169 --> 00:53:07,499
and the second was at the hundredth

1114
00:53:11,839 --> 00:53:09,179
anniversary of his birth

1115
00:53:14,749 --> 00:53:11,849
neither one said anything about his post

1116
00:53:17,329 --> 00:53:14,759
World War two work the government that

1117
00:53:18,889 --> 00:53:17,339
was so highly classified so I didn't

1118
00:53:21,289 --> 00:53:18,899
like the man while he was alive I had

1119
00:53:23,929 --> 00:53:21,299
one running with him I was speaking at

1120
00:53:25,999 --> 00:53:23,939
Harvard that evening and I called to

1121
00:53:28,369 --> 00:53:26,009
invite him to my lecture because it was

1122
00:53:31,099 --> 00:53:28,379
to an engineering Alumni Association I

1123
00:53:33,169 --> 00:53:31,109
had no idea how much publicity they had

1124
00:53:36,829 --> 00:53:33,179
done you know other than to their

1125
00:53:39,259 --> 00:53:36,839
members so I called him gave him my name

1126
00:53:40,669 --> 00:53:39,269
oh I know all about you he said honey I

1127
00:53:42,049 --> 00:53:40,679
said oh you read my congressional

1128
00:53:44,659 --> 00:53:42,059
testimony next to yours

1129
00:53:45,709 --> 00:53:44,669
no you can't be a scientist and believe

1130
00:53:51,019 --> 00:53:45,719
in flying saucers

1131
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:51,029
I laughed of course he got angry dr.

1132
00:53:53,329 --> 00:53:51,569
menville

1133
00:53:55,009 --> 00:53:53,339
I didn't call to argue with you like

1134
00:53:57,319 --> 00:53:55,019
called out of courtesy I'm speaking on

1135
00:53:59,629 --> 00:53:57,329
your campus I'm speaking at 8 o'clock

1136
00:54:01,969 --> 00:53:59,639
and such-and-such Hall and I'd be happy

1137
00:54:04,039 --> 00:54:01,979
to have you there oh well of course I

1138
00:54:09,769 --> 00:54:04,049
won't be there so I told the story that

1139
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:09,779
night you know and then so I was not an

1140
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:12,569
admirer of Donald renzo but once I found

1141
00:54:17,689 --> 00:54:15,359
out all his classified activities

1142
00:54:20,179 --> 00:54:17,699
this was after his death nobody knew

1143
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:20,189
about him during his life

1144
00:54:25,279 --> 00:54:23,129
I developed an appreciation for a kid on

1145
00:54:26,089 --> 00:54:25,289
I could understand him in other words

1146
00:54:27,679 --> 00:54:26,099
mm-hmm

1147
00:54:30,169 --> 00:54:27,689
when you serve in your country you do

1148
00:54:32,389 --> 00:54:30,179
what you're supposed to do and a Kevin

1149
00:54:35,149 --> 00:54:32,399
Randle mentioned that I hadn't found

1150
00:54:38,749 --> 00:54:35,159
anything that mentioned them j12 and his

1151
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:38,759
papers of course not the man who had all

1152
00:54:43,299 --> 00:54:40,319
those years of work with classified

1153
00:54:46,729 --> 00:54:43,309
materials gonna leave stuff lying around

1154
00:54:49,459 --> 00:54:46,739
classified material belongs in a special

1155
00:54:50,899 --> 00:54:49,469
safe he had a combination safe that's

1156
00:54:54,229 --> 00:54:50,909
fire resistant you know there's all

1157
00:54:55,819 --> 00:54:54,239
bunch of rules and so forth and I did

1158
00:55:01,189 --> 00:54:55,829
talk to Menzel's secretary and he was

1159
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,199
very security-conscious but you know

1160
00:55:06,499 --> 00:55:03,599
that that's a terrible yes I did it is

1161
00:55:09,379 --> 00:55:06,509
true I did not find anything in writing

1162
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:09,389
from menzel that said yeah I'm a proud

1163
00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:11,930
member of mj-12

1164
00:55:17,830 --> 00:55:14,420
yeah but I certainly wouldn't have

1165
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:17,840
expected to right and so that leaves

1166
00:55:23,410 --> 00:55:19,910
Phil crass and we don't know who he was

1167
00:55:25,870 --> 00:55:23,420
working for but I'd say somebody he used

1168
00:55:27,610 --> 00:55:25,880
to say that ain't nobody can show that I

1169
00:55:31,980 --> 00:55:27,620
work for a three-letter agency you know

1170
00:55:35,130 --> 00:55:31,990
CIA NSA what if I had foreign letters

1171
00:55:37,690 --> 00:55:35,140
you got around there's anybody listening

1172
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:37,700
I'd be happy to hear of any knowledge

1173
00:55:43,050 --> 00:55:40,730
that they have of Phil classical wasn't

1174
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:43,060
another one it was an excellent writer

1175
00:55:49,150 --> 00:55:46,880
no question about that he just didn't

1176
00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:49,160
get his facts straight about UFOs yeah

1177
00:55:55,930 --> 00:55:51,590
standard practice I guess he seemed very

1178
00:55:58,660 --> 00:55:55,940
angry about the topic you know you're

1179
00:56:00,550 --> 00:55:58,670
right and and I don't fully understand

1180
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:00,560
that even complaint about people

1181
00:56:07,450 --> 00:56:04,090
suggesting that that somebody was lying

1182
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:07,460
yeah that's the lie to protect security

1183
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:11,330
darn it you tiptoe out the way I put it

1184
00:56:17,350 --> 00:56:12,890
is sometimes you have to tiptoe around

1185
00:56:22,270 --> 00:56:17,360
the truth okay you know hey it's a

1186
00:56:25,690 --> 00:56:22,280
massive effort keeping secret I got a

1187
00:56:28,350 --> 00:56:25,700
question here from the forum and it's

1188
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:28,360
sort of a little bit of the conspiracy

1189
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:31,850
angle here about the government and

1190
00:56:37,210 --> 00:56:34,130
cover-ups do you believe the government

1191
00:56:39,130 --> 00:56:37,220
is capable of something as drastic to

1192
00:56:41,020 --> 00:56:39,140
the extent of killing any potential

1193
00:56:45,170 --> 00:56:41,030
whistleblowers in order to keep the et

1194
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:45,180
secret secret

1195
00:56:49,549 --> 00:56:48,720
I know they threaten our there's alleged

1196
00:56:53,870 --> 00:56:49,559
threats

1197
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:53,880
I found one guy that it worked at the

1198
00:57:02,569 --> 00:56:56,609
White House and he very quietly said

1199
00:57:08,180 --> 00:57:02,579
that what's the term white that there's

1200
00:57:11,660 --> 00:57:08,190
a turn that indicates wet wet drugs that

1201
00:57:13,250 --> 00:57:11,670
he knew of a case and he hated to admit

1202
00:57:15,140 --> 00:57:13,260
it but he knew of a case in which

1203
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:15,150
somebody was taken out because he'd been

1204
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:18,089
sloppy about security all I can tell you

1205
00:57:24,020 --> 00:57:20,010
is repeat that as a second hand story

1206
00:57:25,730 --> 00:57:24,030
but yeah I think so

1207
00:57:28,940 --> 00:57:25,740
there are times you know you have to

1208
00:57:32,510 --> 00:57:28,950
weigh consequences if I do and if I

1209
00:57:35,329 --> 00:57:32,520
don't if your enemy finds out what

1210
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:35,339
you're doing soon enough to stop you

1211
00:57:42,799 --> 00:57:37,170
from doing it that may mean that

1212
00:57:44,990 --> 00:57:42,809
terminal thing you know and so I I'm not

1213
00:57:46,940 --> 00:57:45,000
saying they're evil I'm saying there are

1214
00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:46,950
rules of the game and sometimes you have

1215
00:57:55,359 --> 00:57:49,369
to do things which aren't very pleasant

1216
00:57:59,569 --> 00:57:55,369
including taking out your own people now

1217
00:58:03,559 --> 00:57:59,579
getting back to Jesse Marcel and you

1218
00:58:04,359 --> 00:58:03,569
interviewing him and all of that what do

1219
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:04,369
you think

1220
00:58:12,260 --> 00:58:09,450
Roswell would be if Jesse Marcel didn't

1221
00:58:13,940 --> 00:58:12,270
live long enough or never said anything

1222
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:13,950
do you think eventually it would have

1223
00:58:19,940 --> 00:58:17,280
been exposed that's a very good question

1224
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:19,950
and I haven't thought about it a lot but

1225
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:23,760
I on the one hand my pride says oh

1226
00:58:29,380 --> 00:58:26,880
nobody else could have gotten in the

1227
00:58:32,690 --> 00:58:29,390
right place at the right time you know

1228
00:58:36,289 --> 00:58:32,700
on the other hand it wouldn't surprise

1229
00:58:38,750 --> 00:58:36,299
me if somebody else had come forward on

1230
00:58:41,450 --> 00:58:38,760
their dying days you know what I mean an

1231
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:41,460
act of conscience there are people who

1232
00:58:46,430 --> 00:58:43,890
get fed up with the government you know

1233
00:58:49,309 --> 00:58:46,440
who think that maybe their grandchild

1234
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:49,319
was entitled to know or something like

1235
00:58:53,980 --> 00:58:52,290
that because there isn't can you think

1236
00:58:56,390 --> 00:58:53,990
of anything more significant than

1237
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:56,400
recognition that there are other beings

1238
00:59:00,480 --> 00:58:57,850
out there right

1239
00:59:03,330 --> 00:59:00,490
our neighborhood that's that's a very

1240
00:59:05,850 --> 00:59:03,340
big story so I can't say it wouldn't

1241
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:05,860
have come out but when I look at how

1242
00:59:12,210 --> 00:59:09,040
fortunate the circumstances were I mean

1243
00:59:15,660 --> 00:59:12,220
I I don't think that was ever in Baton

1244
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:15,670
Rouge Louisiana and certainly not with

1245
00:59:21,180 --> 00:59:18,720
the guy who happened to know just yeah

1246
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:21,190
yeah the odds of not happening the way

1247
00:59:27,900 --> 00:59:23,280
it did I'm very slim

1248
00:59:30,750 --> 00:59:27,910
yeah and I'm glad it happened I feel

1249
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:30,760
very fortunate I feel honored

1250
00:59:38,850 --> 00:59:35,010
there is a what do you call it DVD now

1251
00:59:42,260 --> 00:59:38,860
recollections of Roswell that has

1252
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:42,270
testimony from 23 firsthand witnesses

1253
00:59:51,870 --> 00:59:46,450
who are all dead now except one he's an

1254
00:59:55,290 --> 00:59:51,880
old man a very old man is but an

1255
00:59:57,300 --> 00:59:55,300
enclosed testimony with Jesse so for

1256
01:00:00,240 --> 00:59:57,310
people who think that oh it's all lost

1257
01:00:02,850 --> 01:00:00,250
in history they can actually listen to

1258
01:00:06,210 --> 01:00:02,860
first-hand testimony from people who

1259
01:00:07,590 --> 01:00:06,220
were involved and you know I will be the

1260
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:07,600
first to admit that sometimes

1261
01:00:14,420 --> 01:00:11,200
investigators get lucky I after talking

1262
01:00:16,620 --> 01:00:14,430
to Jesse I checked editor and publisher

1263
01:00:18,660 --> 01:00:16,630
which is a listing of all the newspapers

1264
01:00:20,820 --> 01:00:18,670
and magazines in the country and I went

1265
01:00:22,650 --> 01:00:20,830
to the library did my homework and I

1266
01:00:26,100 --> 01:00:22,660
looked up Roswell I don't know anything

1267
01:00:28,890 --> 01:00:26,110
about Roswell New Mexico they have a

1268
01:00:31,860 --> 01:00:28,900
newspaper I had to actually Roswell

1269
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:31,870
Daily Record so I called the newspaper

1270
01:00:38,610 --> 01:00:35,040
ask for the editor from 1947 this is a

1271
01:00:40,890 --> 01:00:38,620
1978 you know

1272
01:00:42,750 --> 01:00:40,900
oh he's long gone what do you need I've

1273
01:00:45,870 --> 01:00:42,760
got some articles here bill Moore and I

1274
01:00:49,140 --> 01:00:45,880
had dug out some articles looking up

1275
01:00:51,090 --> 01:00:49,150
Roswell and stuff and says that the base

1276
01:00:52,890 --> 01:00:51,100
public information officer hidden you

1277
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:52,900
know the basic been closed in the mid

1278
01:01:00,090 --> 01:00:55,930
sixties that's another story

1279
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:00,100
guy named Walter how taught because its

1280
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:04,330
name is spelt four different ways and

1281
01:01:07,980 --> 01:01:06,490
before I could finish this sentence the

1282
01:01:12,100 --> 01:01:07,990
person on the other end says Oh his wife

1283
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:14,150
Walter was the public information

1284
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:17,280
officer he was also a fart never

1285
01:01:22,190 --> 01:01:19,530
mentioned by the noisy negative s a

1286
01:01:26,510 --> 01:01:22,200
world war two bombardier with more than

1287
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:26,520
20 missions over Japan he also was

1288
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:28,490
chosen to drop the instrument package

1289
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:31,290
when they exploded that an a-bomb in

1290
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:33,930
1946 in operation crossroads you pick

1291
01:01:37,460 --> 01:01:35,370
your best guy to do that because you

1292
01:01:40,490 --> 01:01:37,470
don't have made Adam mom's to waste

1293
01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:40,500
backup that and without the instrument

1294
01:01:45,770 --> 01:01:43,550
what good was a test you know so

1295
01:01:48,580 --> 01:01:45,780
sometimes you get lucky is what I'm

1296
01:01:52,820 --> 01:01:48,590
saying Walter I talked to the wife and

1297
01:01:55,700 --> 01:01:52,830
Walters gone so was his wife but he had

1298
01:01:58,510 --> 01:01:55,710
a base yearbook let me have a copy of it

1299
01:02:01,220 --> 01:01:58,520
so it was a great help in finding people

1300
01:02:02,930 --> 01:02:01,230
because you find one guy and they

1301
01:02:04,850 --> 01:02:02,940
mention other people and you dig out

1302
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:04,860
their names it's a lot of work but

1303
01:02:09,470 --> 01:02:06,570
because we didn't have an internet back

1304
01:02:11,180 --> 01:02:09,480
then but like I say you got to take

1305
01:02:13,580 --> 01:02:11,190
advantage of lucky times when you

1306
01:02:16,940 --> 01:02:13,590
stumble on something and follow up on it

1307
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:16,950
right makes me wonder too I wonder if

1308
01:02:24,490 --> 01:02:20,010
there's any other Roswell type situation

1309
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:24,500
that was just swept away and forgotten

1310
01:02:30,830 --> 01:02:28,770
well I think but quite frankly there was

1311
01:02:32,570 --> 01:02:30,840
I can't tell you what it was obviously

1312
01:02:35,870 --> 01:02:32,580
heard and you couldn't say it was

1313
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:35,880
forgotten but I've had enough experience

1314
01:02:40,100 --> 01:02:37,680
with classified material I'm having

1315
01:02:42,740 --> 01:02:40,110
Hannah clearance for 14 years and

1316
01:02:44,930 --> 01:02:42,750
several different companies so it wasn't

1317
01:02:46,550 --> 01:02:44,940
just one company I worked and I worked

1318
01:02:48,530 --> 01:02:46,560
for the big guys you know General

1319
01:02:50,930 --> 01:02:48,540
Electric General Motors Westinghouse

1320
01:02:53,180 --> 01:02:50,940
McDonnell Douglas astronomic Sargent

1321
01:03:01,640 --> 01:02:53,190
general nucleonic I think I said a

1322
01:03:04,100 --> 01:03:01,650
record for working on so III would yeah

1323
01:03:05,450 --> 01:03:04,110
yeah oh you know one of the things I was

1324
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:05,460
thinking about earlier when you're

1325
01:03:10,580 --> 01:03:08,010
talking about classified in government

1326
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:10,590
secrets what do you think a lot of

1327
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:14,130
people say that they think the the

1328
01:03:20,180 --> 01:03:17,280
triangles that they see flying over you

1329
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:20,190
know without any sound large triangles a

1330
01:03:25,370 --> 01:03:23,130
lot of people are attributing them to

1331
01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:25,380
you know a secret government project and

1332
01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:26,940
I don't know if they are they're not I

1333
01:03:34,460 --> 01:03:30,510
have no idea the question is do you

1334
01:03:40,070 --> 01:03:34,470
think that's a possibility well I think

1335
01:03:43,990 --> 01:03:40,080
it is but I'm wearing you know I get

1336
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:44,000
people remember in the Phoenix lights I

1337
01:03:53,860 --> 01:03:49,530
I was debating with a military guy and

1338
01:03:56,980 --> 01:03:53,870
at a forum at a college and he was

1339
01:03:59,210 --> 01:03:56,990
acting like well those weren't qualified

1340
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:59,220
witnesses and we're talking about the

1341
01:04:04,130 --> 01:04:01,680
four women who were together watch this

1342
01:04:07,820 --> 01:04:04,140
big triangular-shaped putting more

1343
01:04:11,450 --> 01:04:07,830
boomerang gulen triangle but and it

1344
01:04:14,510 --> 01:04:11,460
blotted out the stars they said and it

1345
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:14,520
made no noise and while they weren't

1346
01:04:19,490 --> 01:04:16,890
qualified witnesses now qualified do you

1347
01:04:22,070 --> 01:04:19,500
have to be to say I'm standing outside

1348
01:04:24,170 --> 01:04:22,080
with my friends and look up and here's

1349
01:04:27,890 --> 01:04:24,180
his big old fling coming along and it

1350
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:27,900
took much time to cross over and didn't

1351
01:04:30,980 --> 01:04:29,490
make a sound and we couldn't see the

1352
01:04:32,990 --> 01:04:30,990
stars when it was in front of them

1353
01:04:35,950 --> 01:04:33,000
people were out to see the comet that

1354
01:04:38,630 --> 01:04:35,960
night so there were a lot of people and

1355
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:38,640
how qualified do you have to be what

1356
01:04:44,090 --> 01:04:41,610
kind of an approach is that you know

1357
01:04:47,420 --> 01:04:44,100
they didn't give you numbers under what

1358
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:47,430
the size of the thing was or the power

1359
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:49,440
level of its engines if it had engines

1360
01:04:54,470 --> 01:04:52,770
and so forth but it's crazy you know one

1361
01:04:57,740 --> 01:04:54,480
of the things that's analogous to this

1362
01:05:00,770 --> 01:04:57,750
is people say eyewitness testimony isn't

1363
01:05:04,210 --> 01:05:00,780
reliable right well the reason we can

1364
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:04,220
explain most sightings is that

1365
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:06,720
eyewitness testimony tends to be

1366
01:05:11,420 --> 01:05:09,090
reliable that the person doesn't know

1367
01:05:13,130 --> 01:05:11,430
that it was Venus he was watching just

1368
01:05:16,730 --> 01:05:13,140
happen to be out late at night and there

1369
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:16,740
was the brightest thing in the sky but

1370
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:18,960
we know was Venus because if we look at

1371
01:05:22,310 --> 01:05:20,490
the direction he was pointing and the

1372
01:05:24,410 --> 01:05:22,320
elevation above the horizon you know put

1373
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:24,420
his arm out and say where he was looking

1374
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:29,130
because he was a good witness I you know

1375
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:30,810
you don't expect me to give you a serial

1376
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:33,050
numbers or the parts inside for goodness

1377
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:36,890
I remember having a talk with seth

1378
01:05:43,420 --> 01:05:39,730
shostack I know you debated him and uh

1379
01:05:46,270 --> 01:05:43,430
basically he said that he didn't believe

1380
01:05:48,940 --> 01:05:46,280
that well first of all that eyewitness

1381
01:05:50,140 --> 01:05:48,950
testimony doesn't hold up in court that

1382
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:50,150
was one of the things he said and he

1383
01:05:55,690 --> 01:05:52,010
also said that he didn't think an

1384
01:05:58,660 --> 01:05:55,700
astronaut or a police officer or a pilot

1385
01:06:02,290 --> 01:05:58,670
were any more qualified as a eyewitness

1386
01:06:04,810 --> 01:06:02,300
and anyone else which I totally disagree

1387
01:06:05,020 --> 01:06:04,820
with myself yeah I totally disagree with

1388
01:06:08,410 --> 01:06:05,030
that

1389
01:06:11,890 --> 01:06:08,420
yes actually I like Seth and I noticed

1390
01:06:14,740 --> 01:06:11,900
in his most recent article that he has

1391
01:06:16,780 --> 01:06:14,750
changed his attitude about things you

1392
01:06:19,170 --> 01:06:16,790
know i-i've been fighting a battle with

1393
01:06:21,580 --> 01:06:19,180
the city community for a long time

1394
01:06:23,530 --> 01:06:21,590
that's supposed to stand for search for

1395
01:06:24,850 --> 01:06:23,540
extraterrestrial intelligence and I say

1396
01:06:28,810 --> 01:06:24,860
it stands for silly effort to

1397
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:28,820
investigate a seat but I see that set

1398
01:06:35,830 --> 01:06:32,810
this back off a bit saying that well

1399
01:06:37,690 --> 01:06:35,840
they wouldn't know we were here until

1400
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:37,700
fairly recently and from a couple

1401
01:06:42,460 --> 01:06:39,290
hundred light-years it wouldn't have had

1402
01:06:45,820 --> 01:06:42,470
time to receive a signal from them and

1403
01:06:49,570 --> 01:06:45,830
so forth and he's acting as if the only

1404
01:06:51,820 --> 01:06:49,580
information a lian's would have about us

1405
01:06:54,550 --> 01:06:51,830
or we would have about aliens is what

1406
01:06:57,250 --> 01:06:54,560
they would tell us well you know

1407
01:06:59,170 --> 01:06:57,260
Columbus didn't send signals smoke

1408
01:07:03,100 --> 01:06:59,180
signals to the Indians before he went

1409
01:07:07,150 --> 01:07:03,110
across the pond III think that's a false

1410
01:07:10,540 --> 01:07:07,160
analogy hmm and I'm glad to see him back

1411
01:07:12,820 --> 01:07:10,550
and off a bit I mean let's face it I I

1412
01:07:16,380 --> 01:07:12,830
won the debate there was a boat from the

1413
01:07:20,350 --> 01:07:16,390
audience's on coast-to-coast radio and

1414
01:07:23,110 --> 01:07:20,360
57% said I won 33% said he won and 10%

1415
01:07:26,110 --> 01:07:23,120
said I don't know who won the debate but

1416
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:26,120
the the SETI and I I did do something

1417
01:07:31,690 --> 01:07:29,330
kind of sneaky we did the debate and we

1418
01:07:35,890 --> 01:07:31,700
each gave three lectures on a cruise

1419
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:35,900
from England to New York not much doing

1420
01:07:40,620 --> 01:07:37,490
in the North Atlantic in the middle of

1421
01:07:44,580 --> 01:07:43,020
and in the course of my lecture I talked

1422
01:07:47,250 --> 01:07:44,590
about five large-scale scientific

1423
01:07:49,590 --> 01:07:47,260
studies I present slides and what was in

1424
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:49,600
the studies like Blue Book special

1425
01:07:58,200 --> 01:07:53,170
report 14 or the congressional hearings

1426
01:08:00,270 --> 01:07:58,210
of 1968 lots of data and after each one

1427
01:08:03,810 --> 01:08:00,280
I asked how many here have read this

1428
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:03,820
this is on board the ship and surfs and

1429
01:08:08,910 --> 01:08:06,490
didn't go up for any of them and that's

1430
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:08,920
that's typical I rarely get more than a

1431
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:10,480
couple percent of read any of the major

1432
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:15,370
sources of data you know look a guy

1433
01:08:19,890 --> 01:08:17,410
interrupted me three times and I was

1434
01:08:23,970 --> 01:08:19,900
speaking to a gulf research labs lecture

1435
01:08:25,770 --> 01:08:23,980
and so I turned to him at the end of the

1436
01:08:26,420 --> 01:08:25,780
lecture and so he could ask the first

1437
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:26,430
question

1438
01:08:31,500 --> 01:08:28,930
well I'm sure one could come to other

1439
01:08:34,740 --> 01:08:31,510
conclusions and the one you came to he

1440
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:34,750
said I said well as I recall you hadn't

1441
01:08:40,230 --> 01:08:36,370
read any of those five large-scale

1442
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:40,240
scientific studies had you well no I

1443
01:08:45,540 --> 01:08:43,090
said well great quietly that that's the

1444
01:08:47,849 --> 01:08:45,550
difference between us isn't it I gave

1445
01:08:49,230 --> 01:08:47,859
you my conclusions I showed you the

1446
01:08:51,660 --> 01:08:49,240
evidence in which I base my conclusions

1447
01:08:55,830 --> 01:08:51,670
I've read them all you've read none of

1448
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:55,840
them whose opinion is worth more long

1449
01:09:01,320 --> 01:08:58,000
styling yeah in other words I didn't

1450
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:01,330
yell and shriek and fuss yeah but it's

1451
01:09:04,980 --> 01:09:03,250
pretty obvious if you haven't looked at

1452
01:09:09,030 --> 01:09:04,990
any of the data you're not entitled to a

1453
01:09:11,910 --> 01:09:09,040
quote scientific unquote opinion so you

1454
01:09:13,020 --> 01:09:11,920
know it's one of the hazards but it you

1455
01:09:18,030 --> 01:09:13,030
know was something that bothered me when

1456
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:18,040
I first started to speak back in 1967

1457
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:21,850
that's what 50 years of speech Wow

1458
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:25,210
I was afraid somebody was going to come

1459
01:09:29,970 --> 01:09:27,570
up who would destroy my argument somehow

1460
01:09:31,950 --> 01:09:29,980
you know I didn't know how maybe was an

1461
01:09:34,230 --> 01:09:31,960
insider who knew something that got some

1462
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:34,240
secret program that made flying saucers

1463
01:09:39,019 --> 01:09:36,250
you know or something like that but I

1464
01:09:40,999 --> 01:09:39,029
gradually lost that fear

1465
01:09:42,650 --> 01:09:41,009
because it just just didn't happen I've

1466
01:09:46,249 --> 01:09:42,660
only had a lemon hecklers and well over

1467
01:09:46,670 --> 01:09:46,259
700 lectures well and two of them were

1468
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:46,680
drunk

1469
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:48,690
I just may get that man if you talk

1470
01:09:53,690 --> 01:09:51,810
about sports religion politics etc and

1471
01:09:58,850 --> 01:09:53,700
you know I've been very pleased

1472
01:10:02,480 --> 01:09:58,860
sometimes University of Manitoba in

1473
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:02,490
Winnipeg somebody at the end of my life

1474
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:03,930
we had a packed house some people

1475
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:06,930
sitting in the aisles he said how about

1476
01:10:10,190 --> 01:10:08,850
polling this audience I'd given some

1477
01:10:12,170 --> 01:10:10,200
Gallup poll later

1478
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:12,180
everybody thinks nobody believes in UFOs

1479
01:10:15,190 --> 01:10:13,770
but that's not true and the greater the

1480
01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:15,200
education and more likely to believe

1481
01:10:22,610 --> 01:10:17,520
anyway he said how about polling this

1482
01:10:24,260 --> 01:10:22,620
audience oh well okay I normally I stick

1483
01:10:25,610 --> 01:10:24,270
my neck out I don't ask my audience to

1484
01:10:28,730 --> 01:10:25,620
well I don't think I wouldn't mind

1485
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:28,740
everybody clapped so okay well over 90

1486
01:10:35,630 --> 01:10:31,290
percent this is after my lecture now I

1487
01:10:38,020 --> 01:10:35,640
don't know what it would be well over 90

1488
01:10:39,950 --> 01:10:38,030
percent thought some UFOs are

1489
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:39,960
extraterrestrial spacecraft remember the

1490
01:10:42,830 --> 01:10:42,210
right question is not or all UFOs alien

1491
01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:42,840
spacecraft

1492
01:10:47,210 --> 01:10:45,360
the questions are any you know the

1493
01:10:48,620 --> 01:10:47,220
basketball coach understands yes most

1494
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:48,630
we've learned southernfry talk give me

1495
01:10:55,250 --> 01:10:53,520
one he'll do yeah yeah I'm interested in

1496
01:10:57,260 --> 01:10:55,260
nuclear fission well most isotopes

1497
01:10:59,480 --> 01:10:57,270
aren't fissionable so what give me the

1498
01:11:01,910 --> 01:10:59,490
one that is we make a lot of effort to

1499
01:11:04,690 --> 01:11:01,920
do that so you kind of focus in the

1500
01:11:07,580 --> 01:11:04,700
right place and nobody would say that

1501
01:11:09,380 --> 01:11:07,590
Babe Ruth was a lousy baseball player

1502
01:11:13,210 --> 01:11:09,390
rake up does that mean know who Babe

1503
01:11:15,740 --> 01:11:13,220
Ruth is these days I think still yes

1504
01:11:17,090 --> 01:11:15,750
well I think so but two-thirds of the

1505
01:11:19,790 --> 01:11:17,100
time he didn't get ahead at least

1506
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:19,800
two-thirds of the time it's the hits

1507
01:11:26,570 --> 01:11:23,600
that matter not to yeah that's right

1508
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:26,580
Belinda in the chat room one to know

1509
01:11:31,730 --> 01:11:29,040
during she says during the conferences

1510
01:11:33,620 --> 01:11:31,740
people now I don't know if this is true

1511
01:11:36,169 --> 01:11:33,630
or not I've never heard this but people

1512
01:11:40,660 --> 01:11:36,179
are pushing you to

1513
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:40,670
change your position on Bob Lazar and

1514
01:11:46,459 --> 01:11:43,110
she wanted to know what you what's your

1515
01:11:48,169 --> 01:11:46,469
reflection was above this well I don't

1516
01:11:52,010 --> 01:11:48,179
know if your audience knows who Bob

1517
01:11:55,010 --> 01:11:52,020
Lazar is I he's a smart guy who made

1518
01:12:00,410 --> 01:11:55,020
claims about 20 years ago it hasn't been

1519
01:12:03,590 --> 01:12:00,420
that long yeah yeah it has that he was

1520
01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:03,600
working on figuring out how flying

1521
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:06,719
saucers work that he had a master's

1522
01:12:14,950 --> 01:12:10,770
degree in nuclear physics from MIT and a

1523
01:12:18,830 --> 01:12:14,960
master's in electronics from Caltech and

1524
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:18,840
he was working on figuring out flies how

1525
01:12:25,490 --> 01:12:21,810
flying saucers worked using mysterious

1526
01:12:27,620 --> 01:12:25,500
element 115 you know so people kept

1527
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:27,630
asking me about it he was on George

1528
01:12:33,470 --> 01:12:30,770
Knapp's show and he's a smart guy

1529
01:12:37,250 --> 01:12:33,480
let's I'm not saying he's an idiot at

1530
01:12:39,740 --> 01:12:37,260
all on things a lawyer because I George

1531
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:39,750
gave me information on where Bob went to

1532
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:41,400
high school like all this in high school

1533
01:12:46,910 --> 01:12:44,400
I said I'm getting different information

1534
01:12:49,370 --> 01:12:46,920
about this man and can you tell me

1535
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:49,380
anything call me back I'll check out his

1536
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:53,520
records uh okay it got his records

1537
01:12:59,060 --> 01:12:57,090
coming back uh let's see graduated in

1538
01:13:01,070 --> 01:12:59,070
August not with his class there's a

1539
01:13:07,729 --> 01:13:01,080
readi a warning sign that usually means

1540
01:13:09,470 --> 01:13:07,739
you're flunked something I said okay did

1541
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:09,480
he what science course he must have

1542
01:13:13,209 --> 01:13:11,570
taken a lot of science courses chemistry

1543
01:13:17,570 --> 01:13:13,219
what else

1544
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:17,580
chemistry oh if he went to MIT he had

1545
01:13:21,770 --> 01:13:19,530
Morton in chemistry had more than a

1546
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:21,780
chemistry course I said well he was

1547
01:13:29,740 --> 01:13:24,810
valedictorian wasn't he she laughed I

1548
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:29,750
said he wasn't no was in the top ten no

1549
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:35,010
top 20 no top 15 no she's laughing at

1550
01:13:44,089 --> 01:13:39,210
this time top hundred know he was like

1551
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:44,099
262 at 365 bottom third so already I

1552
01:13:47,250 --> 01:13:46,290
knew he was in trouble you know you

1553
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:47,260
can't uh

1554
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:49,810
there's a personal side to this I was

1555
01:13:54,090 --> 01:13:52,210
accepted at MIT out of high school I was

1556
01:13:56,570 --> 01:13:54,100
valedictorian in my high school class I

1557
01:14:00,770 --> 01:13:56,580
couldn't afford to go the tuition was

1558
01:14:03,420 --> 01:14:00,780
$900 now it's like 29,000 but you know

1559
01:14:05,700 --> 01:14:03,430
some I was resenting somebody saying

1560
01:14:10,500 --> 01:14:05,710
gone MIT I talked to five different

1561
01:14:12,180 --> 01:14:10,510
people in MIT Inc including the guy who

1562
01:14:14,130 --> 01:14:12,190
should know about whether the

1563
01:14:16,950 --> 01:14:14,140
Registrar's Office and all those people

1564
01:14:19,890 --> 01:14:16,960
about is there any way to erase

1565
01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:19,900
somebody's records because when the

1566
01:14:22,650 --> 01:14:22,000
excuse was well the government erased

1567
01:14:26,730 --> 01:14:22,660
his files

1568
01:14:28,260 --> 01:14:26,740
mhm and he said frankly no you can't

1569
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:28,270
give out a grade point average without

1570
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:29,920
permission of the person you're asking

1571
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:31,570
about you know there are rules for the

1572
01:14:36,780 --> 01:14:34,000
game privacy and all the sort of stuff

1573
01:14:43,950 --> 01:14:36,790
but no there's no way to erase that a

1574
01:14:46,170 --> 01:14:43,960
guy went there so anyway I Bob and I

1575
01:14:48,270 --> 01:14:46,180
also conceded that Bob did work at Los

1576
01:14:52,260 --> 01:14:48,280
Alamos his name was in the phone book

1577
01:14:54,090 --> 01:14:52,270
but some people think if you work to Los

1578
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:54,100
Alamos you must be a scientist well most

1579
01:14:59,100 --> 01:14:55,930
people work there aren't scientist

1580
01:15:01,470 --> 01:14:59,110
mm-hmm I mean you need support people

1581
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:01,480
and secretaries and Kooks and guards and

1582
01:15:08,820 --> 01:15:03,610
all kinds of technicians lots of

1583
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:08,830
technicians my god for them and so you

1584
01:15:14,250 --> 01:15:11,530
know what can I say well Roz is running

1585
01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:14,260
a company called United nuclear right he

1586
01:15:19,110 --> 01:15:16,480
sells scientific equipment and stuff but

1587
01:15:21,270 --> 01:15:19,120
he is not a scientist and you know

1588
01:15:24,210 --> 01:15:21,280
people say well I had a friend of his

1589
01:15:26,370 --> 01:15:24,220
calling a friendly conversation it

1590
01:15:28,170 --> 01:15:26,380
wasn't nasty well what would it take to

1591
01:15:31,140 --> 01:15:28,180
convince you that bob was telling the

1592
01:15:35,340 --> 01:15:31,150
truth I said well I'd like to see copies

1593
01:15:36,930 --> 01:15:35,350
of his diplomas hmm you know stuff like

1594
01:15:39,660 --> 01:15:36,940
that papers that he's written a resume

1595
01:15:41,220 --> 01:15:39,670
that would be nice it was back in the

1596
01:15:45,900 --> 01:15:41,230
times when I always had a respirator to

1597
01:15:47,609 --> 01:15:45,910
hand out stuff and so I I sent him

1598
01:15:50,189 --> 01:15:47,619
copies of my stuff

1599
01:15:51,810 --> 01:15:50,199
eight page resume when you work for a

1600
01:15:54,959 --> 01:15:51,820
lot of companies it's a lot of room you

1601
01:15:57,629 --> 01:15:54,969
know I never got anything from him

1602
01:16:00,689 --> 01:15:57,639
so I was trying to be fair and George

1603
01:16:03,389 --> 01:16:00,699
Knapp and I still get along yeah yeah

1604
01:16:05,489 --> 01:16:03,399
you know another thing I've then someone

1605
01:16:07,259 --> 01:16:05,499
put this up in the chat room and I

1606
01:16:09,810 --> 01:16:07,269
remembered hearing something about this

1607
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:09,820
that someone asked him what was the

1608
01:16:17,219 --> 01:16:14,050
statue out front of MIT and or was it

1609
01:16:20,689 --> 01:16:17,229
the square or something and he couldn't

1610
01:16:23,969 --> 01:16:20,699
answer that question yeah that's funny

1611
01:16:29,909 --> 01:16:23,979
and you know you should be able to

1612
01:16:31,969 --> 01:16:29,919
establish it one yeah I would think so I

1613
01:16:37,409 --> 01:16:31,979
would think so let's let's talk about

1614
01:16:39,060 --> 01:16:37,419
the document now that was oh yeah given

1615
01:16:43,169 --> 01:16:39,070
to Heather Wade

1616
01:16:44,639 --> 01:16:43,179
I personally well maybe I shouldn't give

1617
01:16:47,399 --> 01:16:44,649
you my opinion on it maybe maybe I

1618
01:16:49,259 --> 01:16:47,409
should just hear your opinion on it well

1619
01:16:51,659 --> 01:16:49,269
I'd like to hear yours after and after I

1620
01:16:53,459 --> 01:16:51,669
give you mine okay Heather called me

1621
01:16:55,679 --> 01:16:53,469
I've done a couple of shows with her I

1622
01:16:59,609 --> 01:16:55,689
greatly appreciate he's a very bright

1623
01:17:04,589 --> 01:16:59,619
lady and I'm having written a whole book

1624
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:04,599
top secret magic Maj I see about mj-12 I

1625
01:17:07,619 --> 01:17:07,090
was of course interested to say the

1626
01:17:09,659 --> 01:17:07,629
least

1627
01:17:10,889 --> 01:17:09,669
and I'm convinced there wasn't mj-12 and

1628
01:17:13,049 --> 01:17:10,899
I'm convinced that most of the early

1629
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:13,059
documents were fraudulent okay I was

1630
01:17:19,949 --> 01:17:16,449
able to show why as a matter of fact so

1631
01:17:23,279 --> 01:17:19,959
I it was difficult though because I was

1632
01:17:24,229 --> 01:17:23,289
traveling and this thing was very hard

1633
01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:24,239
to read

1634
01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:28,840
it's like 48 pages to deliver mission to

1635
01:17:34,949 --> 01:17:31,510
to a sheep and I had to get a big

1636
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:34,959
magnifier in order to read it so it took

1637
01:17:38,850 --> 01:17:36,489
a lot more time than one would have

1638
01:17:42,689 --> 01:17:38,860
thought yeah

1639
01:17:44,719 --> 01:17:42,699
really hard to read yeah it was so I

1640
01:17:47,219 --> 01:17:44,729
read it with interest and the thing is

1641
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:47,229
you can't just look at a document like

1642
01:17:50,969 --> 01:17:49,570
that you've got to check if you're gonna

1643
01:17:56,099 --> 01:17:50,979
say it's a fraud you got to say well

1644
01:17:57,340 --> 01:17:56,109
because ABCDEF etc no I was able to

1645
01:18:01,630 --> 01:17:57,350
check

1646
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:01,640
since I got that from Heather it is

1647
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:04,250
noted that Truman President Truman

1648
01:18:12,990 --> 01:18:08,410
supposedly met with aliens in Vermont

1649
01:18:16,990 --> 01:18:13,000
while he was president on a certain date

1650
01:18:18,970 --> 01:18:17,000
so I checked with the Truman library the

1651
01:18:20,650 --> 01:18:18,980
presidential libraries are loaded with

1652
01:18:22,870 --> 01:18:20,660
information they have all the calendars

1653
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:22,880
every meeting the president ever had and

1654
01:18:27,580 --> 01:18:25,210
so forth and so on so they're very

1655
01:18:29,230 --> 01:18:27,590
obliging they'll give me information if

1656
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:29,240
you're given a specific date where was

1657
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:31,130
he or you know tell me what was on ask

1658
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:33,650
Allender for that day he definitely was

1659
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:35,840
in Washington he had meetings with

1660
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:38,330
people that are spelled out and so forth

1661
01:18:46,330 --> 01:18:42,130
there was a second item where supposedly

1662
01:18:49,980 --> 01:18:46,340
Mike met with aliens at Curtin which is

1663
01:18:52,210 --> 01:18:49,990
in New Mexico on a certain date and

1664
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:52,220
there again when I checked with the

1665
01:18:57,460 --> 01:18:54,050
Eisenhower where they they got back to

1666
01:19:00,400 --> 01:18:57,470
me and he was in Washington that day

1667
01:19:02,500 --> 01:19:00,410
lots of meetings and so you know we

1668
01:19:06,580 --> 01:19:02,510
didn't have supersonic transports moving

1669
01:19:08,890 --> 01:19:06,590
presidents around for secret meeting

1670
01:19:11,290 --> 01:19:08,900
well people forget when a president

1671
01:19:13,180 --> 01:19:11,300
travels there's an entourage oh yeah you

1672
01:19:15,700 --> 01:19:13,190
got to protect them security people and

1673
01:19:17,350 --> 01:19:15,710
so forth and there are records they may

1674
01:19:19,750 --> 01:19:17,360
not be in the New York Times that day

1675
01:19:22,090 --> 01:19:19,760
were what he was doing but somebody

1676
01:19:24,340 --> 01:19:22,100
knows and after he's out of office they

1677
01:19:26,380 --> 01:19:24,350
certainly him you know loads of files a

1678
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:26,390
pile of presidential libraries I've been

1679
01:19:30,850 --> 01:19:28,730
to several of them but it's a good place

1680
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:30,860
to get solid information you know settle

1681
01:19:41,830 --> 01:19:38,570
for guessing what's that well I should

1682
01:19:45,220 --> 01:19:41,840
add that there were some things in the

1683
01:19:49,540 --> 01:19:45,230
document down that conversation would be

1684
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:49,550
suppose it alien oh yes yeah what it's

1685
01:19:57,880 --> 01:19:55,040
hokey a good word to use yeah I did have

1686
01:19:59,620 --> 01:19:57,890
Kevin on recently Kevin Randall and we

1687
01:20:04,450 --> 01:19:59,630
talked about the document and that's the

1688
01:20:06,250 --> 01:20:04,460
part that I said to him basically the

1689
01:20:07,900 --> 01:20:06,260
the person that wrote those questions

1690
01:20:09,310 --> 01:20:07,910
didn't watch a rival now there was a

1691
01:20:11,260 --> 01:20:09,320
movie arrival I don't know if you got to

1692
01:20:13,810 --> 01:20:11,270
see that stand I haven't seen it

1693
01:20:15,670 --> 01:20:13,820
yeah but they asked some real logical

1694
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:15,680
questions that will really really

1695
01:20:22,660 --> 01:20:18,770
well-thought-out whoever wrote that

1696
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:22,670
script which would be something typical

1697
01:20:27,460 --> 01:20:25,280
you would ask someone coming from you

1698
01:20:30,910 --> 01:20:27,470
know another planet or you know solar

1699
01:20:33,610 --> 01:20:30,920
system or whatever and know those

1700
01:20:36,010 --> 01:20:33,620
questions the questions themselves just

1701
01:20:37,660 --> 01:20:36,020
didn't make any sense and you know who

1702
01:20:41,130 --> 01:20:37,670
knows what an aliens gonna answer maybe

1703
01:20:45,820 --> 01:20:41,140
they do like trees that's a new document

1704
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:45,830
so so who do you think would take the

1705
01:20:53,980 --> 01:20:51,650
time to do all that work and why but you

1706
01:20:56,170 --> 01:20:53,990
know that's a good question because when

1707
01:20:59,230 --> 01:20:56,180
I started to do my research on the

1708
01:21:01,450 --> 01:20:59,240
original batch of documents never forget

1709
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:01,460
I say there were four genuine ones and

1710
01:21:06,730 --> 01:21:04,130
there's dozens of phony ones now how did

1711
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:06,740
I establish they were phony well there

1712
01:21:12,130 --> 01:21:09,730
was a mention of general Wedemeyer

1713
01:21:16,770 --> 01:21:12,140
having something to do with in grade 12

1714
01:21:18,970 --> 01:21:16,780
and I called the Marshall archives

1715
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:18,980
George Marshall was a secretary of

1716
01:21:23,140 --> 01:21:20,770
defense during World War 2 and

1717
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:23,150
outstanding record and Truman consider

1718
01:21:29,370 --> 01:21:25,930
him the outstanding living American on

1719
01:21:32,830 --> 01:21:29,380
anyway I called the Marshall archives

1720
01:21:35,530 --> 01:21:32,840
and I asked do you see any reason why

1721
01:21:38,050 --> 01:21:35,540
general Wedemeyer I'd been there so the

1722
01:21:40,150 --> 01:21:38,060
guy knew who I was and stuff and know

1723
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:40,160
about my work on em trade well can you

1724
01:21:43,330 --> 01:21:42,080
say any reason why general Wedemeyer

1725
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:43,340
would have been part of this he was a

1726
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:45,530
China expert he spent a year in China in

1727
01:21:52,300 --> 01:21:50,330
the 40s and he said no I can't uh why

1728
01:21:53,980 --> 01:21:52,310
don't you look at his book Oh didn't

1729
01:21:57,790 --> 01:21:53,990
know he'd written a book Wedemeyer

1730
01:22:01,090 --> 01:21:57,800
reports in the mid 50's okay so I got

1731
01:22:02,890 --> 01:22:01,100
off the phone I called the local

1732
01:22:05,380 --> 01:22:02,900
University of New Brunswick library

1733
01:22:08,230 --> 01:22:05,390
which is two miles from my house very

1734
01:22:10,180 --> 01:22:08,240
nice to have that and I asked if they

1735
01:22:13,150 --> 01:22:10,190
had the book they had the book I went

1736
01:22:14,669 --> 01:22:13,160
over borrowed the book I have privileges

1737
01:22:16,860 --> 01:22:14,679
at the library

1738
01:22:20,459 --> 01:22:16,870
and within half an hour found three

1739
01:22:24,209 --> 01:22:20,469
documents that somebody had emulated

1740
01:22:26,189 --> 01:22:24,219
it's the word I think with very few

1741
01:22:27,540 --> 01:22:26,199
changes they change a date in a couple

1742
01:22:29,729 --> 01:22:27,550
of words so you'd think it was something

1743
01:22:32,340 --> 01:22:29,739
it wasn't and I found three documents

1744
01:22:34,020 --> 01:22:32,350
right off the bat and a few days later

1745
01:22:36,090 --> 01:22:34,030
went back to the library grabbed some

1746
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:36,100
other books in that same section of the

1747
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:39,210
library and found a bunch more documents

1748
01:22:43,709 --> 01:22:41,650
where the handwritten material was in

1749
01:22:50,939 --> 01:22:43,719
exactly the same place on the page

1750
01:22:53,250 --> 01:22:50,949
you know Xerox machines work and so it

1751
01:22:55,140 --> 01:22:53,260
was clear to me that and some people

1752
01:22:56,220 --> 01:22:55,150
thought because it's hard to read some

1753
01:23:04,729 --> 01:22:56,230
of the documents that meant they were

1754
01:23:07,229 --> 01:23:04,739
genuine yeah yeah you know so I became

1755
01:23:12,090 --> 01:23:07,239
very concerned and I asked somebody who

1756
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:12,100
worked for the CIA it's possible that

1757
01:23:15,689 --> 01:23:13,360
there were classes were guys in

1758
01:23:18,270 --> 01:23:15,699
intelligence groups or have as a class

1759
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:18,280
exercise make up a phony document you

1760
01:23:24,450 --> 01:23:21,370
know why not that's a great question I

1761
01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:24,460
could yeah certainly signatures people

1762
01:23:29,580 --> 01:23:27,520
forget when we picked up Eichmann

1763
01:23:32,189 --> 01:23:29,590
where was it Argentina or someplace when

1764
01:23:35,220 --> 01:23:32,199
Israelis picked that bike when one of

1765
01:23:37,950 --> 01:23:35,230
the people I was with their team the big

1766
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:37,960
Nazi well one of the people that was

1767
01:23:43,169 --> 01:23:40,210
with their team was a document forger

1768
01:23:44,820 --> 01:23:43,179
huh I mean illegal they work for the

1769
01:23:47,820 --> 01:23:44,830
government well if you take somebody

1770
01:23:51,419 --> 01:23:47,830
across boundaries national boundaries

1771
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:51,429
you can have paperwork for right yeah my

1772
01:23:55,950 --> 01:23:53,290
friend isn't feeling well at all but

1773
01:23:57,930 --> 01:23:55,960
here his documents and so forth and so

1774
01:24:00,270 --> 01:23:57,940
it was standard practice that you hadn't

1775
01:24:04,740 --> 01:24:00,280
gotta have a document Ignite around to

1776
01:24:08,370 --> 01:24:04,750
make documents phony ones so you know I

1777
01:24:09,930 --> 01:24:08,380
I understand that there are plenty of

1778
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:09,940
people who are good at making phony

1779
01:24:14,580 --> 01:24:11,890
documents doesn't every spy have to have

1780
01:24:15,149 --> 01:24:14,590
phony documents you know let me think

1781
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:15,159
about it

1782
01:24:22,820 --> 01:24:17,920
huh he wasn't born in Milwaukee he was

1783
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:22,830
born in Munich regarding the document

1784
01:24:29,459 --> 01:24:26,650
bill and the forum had this question

1785
01:24:31,260 --> 01:24:29,469
could it be the reaction of the UFO

1786
01:24:34,470 --> 01:24:31,270
community was exactly the outcome

1787
01:24:36,750 --> 01:24:34,480
desired by the documents creator namely

1788
01:24:39,350 --> 01:24:36,760
just enough earmarks earmarks of

1789
01:24:42,450 --> 01:24:39,360
authenticity to gain a certain level of

1790
01:24:44,550 --> 01:24:42,460
publicity on the content but with a

1791
01:24:48,419 --> 01:24:44,560
relatively quick recognition that this

1792
01:24:50,340 --> 01:24:48,429
is not authentic well I think that may

1793
01:24:52,530 --> 01:24:50,350
very well be because my feeling in the

1794
01:24:55,950 --> 01:24:52,540
early mass of documents or dozens of

1795
01:24:58,260 --> 01:24:55,960
them that good stuff gets out you put

1796
01:25:00,780 --> 01:24:58,270
crap on the market and hope it rubs off

1797
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:00,790
on the good stuff and I can understand

1798
01:25:05,490 --> 01:25:02,890
that that there's a certain utility to

1799
01:25:07,110 --> 01:25:05,500
that because it takes a gutsy guy who's

1800
01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:07,120
done his homework to stand up for

1801
01:25:11,850 --> 01:25:08,560
something where everybody knows the most

1802
01:25:14,700 --> 01:25:11,860
documents are phony Stan I've had some

1803
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:14,710
people say that to me and I say the

1804
01:25:20,070 --> 01:25:17,050
question isn't those documents sure a

1805
01:25:23,100 --> 01:25:20,080
lot of them are phony but what's wrong

1806
01:25:26,820 --> 01:25:23,110
with these three you know show me where

1807
01:25:28,260 --> 01:25:26,830
the errors are and one guy gave me a

1808
01:25:32,939 --> 01:25:28,270
hard time on the Internet

1809
01:25:37,950 --> 01:25:32,949
there's no top secret I want to say cold

1810
01:25:39,930 --> 01:25:37,960
org document number on tops all he said

1811
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:39,940
all top secret documents have to have

1812
01:25:46,250 --> 01:25:43,449
that number and I pointed out that I'd

1813
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:46,260
already published a couple that didn't

1814
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:49,449
and if you look at a listing of the

1815
01:25:58,290 --> 01:25:53,280
documents in the airforce files

1816
01:26:01,290 --> 01:25:58,300
intelligence files there's a whole large

1817
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:01,300
record group of them I quoted the

1818
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:04,449
numbers that he said this file includes

1819
01:26:09,959 --> 01:26:06,730
only top secret numbers and they all

1820
01:26:12,060 --> 01:26:09,969
have these top secret documents and they

1821
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:12,070
all have these code numbers on them and

1822
01:26:16,169 --> 01:26:14,290
how to point out I've got a copy of the

1823
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:16,179
listing of all the documents it's 50

1824
01:26:22,649 --> 01:26:20,530
pages long and only a small percentage

1825
01:26:25,110 --> 01:26:22,659
were top secret lots of more

1826
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:25,120
disappointing old confidential or secret

1827
01:26:32,380 --> 01:26:29,010
not top secret code over especially and

1828
01:26:34,910 --> 01:26:32,390
he apologized after a few days

1829
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:34,920
that his source of information hadn't

1830
01:26:39,169 --> 01:26:36,810
been able to provide any justification

1831
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:39,179
for this done the other things so yeah I

1832
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:40,890
think there's a lot of stuff about

1833
01:26:46,430 --> 01:26:43,010
documents and I think you're important

1834
01:26:48,189 --> 01:26:46,440
but it is foolish to say that because

1835
01:26:50,620 --> 01:26:48,199
you've got a poem when they're all phony

1836
01:26:54,050 --> 01:26:50,630
you know that makes no sense

1837
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:54,060
and guys working on the intelligence

1838
01:27:00,500 --> 01:26:56,250
business know the kind of things to make

1839
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:00,510
look good and make look phony yeah yes a

1840
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:04,170
question on the chat room are in regard

1841
01:27:11,209 --> 01:27:07,410
to mj-12 documents he said that every

1842
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:11,219
this is rja says every document that he

1843
01:27:18,050 --> 01:27:15,210
is read is about as non-technical as it

1844
01:27:20,660 --> 01:27:18,060
gets and I'm an engineer do you never

1845
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:20,670
see any meat do you ever see any meeting

1846
01:27:27,229 --> 01:27:23,730
these documents does that bother you

1847
01:27:28,669 --> 01:27:27,239
that it's not technical it doesn't

1848
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:28,679
bother me because I think that would be

1849
01:27:35,979 --> 01:27:32,610
in a separate box entirely highly

1850
01:27:39,709 --> 01:27:35,989
technical stuff I can a highly technical

1851
01:27:42,290 --> 01:27:39,719
legitimate stuff I don't think gets out

1852
01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:42,300
those documents are still classified

1853
01:27:45,590 --> 01:27:43,920
we still have loads of documents that

1854
01:27:49,340 --> 01:27:45,600
are classified from the true manure for

1855
01:27:52,570 --> 01:27:49,350
God's sakes you know because who knows

1856
01:27:56,419 --> 01:27:52,580
what good might be for somebody so I

1857
01:28:01,490 --> 01:27:56,429
don't expect I mean that's the first

1858
01:28:03,890 --> 01:28:01,500
batch of mj-12 documents i you know i

1859
01:28:06,790 --> 01:28:03,900
don't know who put them out i certainly

1860
01:28:09,470 --> 01:28:06,800
don't know why and I was quite dubious

1861
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:09,480
like I say finding the name Menzel on

1862
01:28:18,939 --> 01:28:12,239
the list these guys were ready for us to

1863
01:28:23,709 --> 01:28:18,949
go public and say gosh yeah I know so I

1864
01:28:26,300 --> 01:28:23,719
I'm not surprised that we're not getting

1865
01:28:27,669 --> 01:28:26,310
it proves that you can keep secrets is

1866
01:28:29,979 --> 01:28:27,679
what I'm saying I guess

1867
01:28:33,969 --> 01:28:29,989
this is a highly classified technical

1868
01:28:38,290 --> 01:28:33,979
stuff doesn't get out why should it yeah

1869
01:28:40,839 --> 01:28:38,300
okay cow on the message room what's your

1870
01:28:43,410 --> 01:28:40,849
opinion on the purpose of government's

1871
01:28:46,149 --> 01:28:43,420
efforts to manipulate UFO conversation

1872
01:28:49,589 --> 01:28:46,159
do you consider the prima facie evidence

1873
01:28:53,919 --> 01:28:49,599
of the phenomena that they cannot

1874
01:28:55,830 --> 01:28:53,929
outright control well they certainly

1875
01:28:59,589 --> 01:28:55,840
can't control it

1876
01:29:01,899 --> 01:28:59,599
an aircraft stumbles and crash you know

1877
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:01,909
they can't keep that from happening

1878
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:04,610
and they can't keep a big mouth from

1879
01:29:09,399 --> 01:29:06,050
opening his mouth when he's drunk

1880
01:29:12,839 --> 01:29:09,409
occasionally it happens on things but I

1881
01:29:16,330 --> 01:29:12,849
think the government let's not forget

1882
01:29:18,459 --> 01:29:16,340
that we have a planet with I don't know

1883
01:29:22,870 --> 01:29:18,469
what the latest number is 195 countries

1884
01:29:25,569 --> 01:29:22,880
some large 95 196 yes that's something

1885
01:29:27,850 --> 01:29:25,579
like that yeah uh we don't have a planet

1886
01:29:29,169 --> 01:29:27,860
earth government there's nobody who

1887
01:29:31,839 --> 01:29:29,179
speaks for the planet you know one of

1888
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:31,849
them land on a White House lawn well the

1889
01:29:37,359 --> 01:29:35,570
president does not speak for what do we

1890
01:29:38,859 --> 01:29:37,369
got seven and a half billion people on

1891
01:29:45,279 --> 01:29:38,869
the planet maybe it's mine I don't know

1892
01:29:46,569 --> 01:29:45,289
I haven't kept track you know so what

1893
01:29:51,339 --> 01:29:46,579
what are we gonna do

1894
01:29:52,029 --> 01:29:51,349
I lost my track on that give me that

1895
01:29:54,459 --> 01:29:52,039
question again

1896
01:29:56,140 --> 01:29:54,469
this guy just wanted to know if the

1897
01:29:58,540 --> 01:29:56,150
government what you thought about the

1898
01:30:03,310 --> 01:29:58,550
government's efforts to manipulate the

1899
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:03,320
conversation oh yeah thing I was getting

1900
01:30:07,810 --> 01:30:06,650
at was that if we had an Earthling

1901
01:30:10,620 --> 01:30:07,820
government there'd be an awful lot of

1902
01:30:12,939 --> 01:30:10,630
people losing power wouldn't they hmm

1903
01:30:16,449 --> 01:30:12,949
people in power like to stay in power

1904
01:30:18,549 --> 01:30:16,459
has been my observation so I think it's

1905
01:30:20,979 --> 01:30:18,559
very important for the people who run

1906
01:30:23,410 --> 01:30:20,989
the show that they do everything they

1907
01:30:27,100 --> 01:30:23,420
can something keep people from pushing

1908
01:30:29,890 --> 01:30:27,110
for a planetary government now it may be

1909
01:30:31,449 --> 01:30:29,900
strange to aliens you know what's what

1910
01:30:33,339 --> 01:30:31,459
these guys are gonna done think a little

1911
01:30:36,549 --> 01:30:33,349
planet here we think it's beautiful and

1912
01:30:38,250 --> 01:30:36,559
I think it is beautiful but you know

1913
01:30:40,110 --> 01:30:38,260
what what's what

1914
01:30:42,630 --> 01:30:40,120
I don't think have a government for the

1915
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:42,640
girl languages on the planet mm-hmm I

1916
01:30:46,860 --> 01:30:45,040
mean sometimes I think that the earth is

1917
01:30:48,270 --> 01:30:46,870
a penal colony they dumped all the bad

1918
01:30:50,610 --> 01:30:48,280
boys and girls here and that's hard

1919
01:30:53,730 --> 01:30:50,620
there's some nasty to each other that

1920
01:30:55,350 --> 01:30:53,740
could be well we certainly don't spend a

1921
01:30:57,210 --> 01:30:55,360
lot of effort trying to make the place

1922
01:31:01,500 --> 01:30:57,220
better like I say a trillion dollars

1923
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:01,510
every year for things military is a sad

1924
01:31:08,850 --> 01:31:06,130
commentary yeah yeah and and let's just

1925
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:08,860
go way off topic and just let's just say

1926
01:31:15,870 --> 01:31:12,850
that we were able to start occupying the

1927
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:15,880
moon or say Mars another planet yeah how

1928
01:31:20,340 --> 01:31:17,890
do you think that would go for our

1929
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:20,350
species do you think it would be a war

1930
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:24,130
time on land grabbing and you know war

1931
01:31:29,340 --> 01:31:26,050
time was far as control of another

1932
01:31:32,130 --> 01:31:29,350
planet well look down

1933
01:31:33,990 --> 01:31:32,140
we had Wars when we people were

1934
01:31:37,230 --> 01:31:34,000
migrating South America and North

1935
01:31:38,580 --> 01:31:37,240
America there were there were Wars look

1936
01:31:43,140 --> 01:31:38,590
I live in Canada there were the

1937
01:31:47,790 --> 01:31:43,150
french-indian war of 1812 our own little

1938
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:47,800
planet so I think that's gonna be a big

1939
01:31:53,550 --> 01:31:50,800
step it's not as more in the future as

1940
01:31:55,710 --> 01:31:53,560
some might think look I worked on

1941
01:31:58,590 --> 01:31:55,720
fishing and fusion propulsion systems

1942
01:32:00,510 --> 01:31:58,600
for deep space travel and most people

1943
01:32:03,150 --> 01:32:00,520
think nuclear oh that's terrible and

1944
01:32:05,460 --> 01:32:03,160
blah blah blah blah we operated well Los

1945
01:32:07,050 --> 01:32:05,470
Alamos operated a nuclear efficient

1946
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:07,060
rocket less than eight feet in diameter

1947
01:32:14,370 --> 01:32:11,530
and a power level of 4,400 megawatts

1948
01:32:17,430 --> 01:32:14,380
that's twice the power of over dance yes

1949
01:32:20,130 --> 01:32:17,440
the exhaust temperature of the hydrogen

1950
01:32:22,350 --> 01:32:20,140
very cold hydrogen going in very hot

1951
01:32:27,060 --> 01:32:22,360
going out was over 4,000 degrees

1952
01:32:31,230 --> 01:32:27,070
Fahrenheit and that was back in the 60s

1953
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:31,240
unreal and I worked on a study in 1962

1954
01:32:36,090 --> 01:32:33,250
of fusion propulsion for deep space

1955
01:32:38,790 --> 01:32:36,100
travel and for the listeners almost all

1956
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:38,800
the energy in the universe produced by

1957
01:32:43,980 --> 01:32:42,130
nuclear fusion in the Stars that Sun up

1958
01:32:45,250 --> 01:32:43,990
there isn't a mass of burning gas it's

1959
01:32:49,839 --> 01:32:45,260
of fusions

1960
01:32:54,220 --> 01:32:49,849
them and the well look take a little

1961
01:32:56,830 --> 01:32:54,230
escalation in 1944 a big bomb was a 10

1962
01:32:58,720 --> 01:32:56,840
ton blockbuster fixed the energy of 10

1963
01:33:02,830 --> 01:32:58,730
tons of dynamite Wow

1964
01:33:07,839 --> 01:33:02,840
and it took a big b-29 to carry it 1945

1965
01:33:11,529 --> 01:33:07,849
first atomic bomb 16,000 tons of tnt

1966
01:33:16,740 --> 01:33:11,539
dynamite energy equivalent first fusion

1967
01:33:20,049 --> 01:33:16,750
demise 1950 to release the energy of 10

1968
01:33:23,109 --> 01:33:20,059
million tons of dynamite one stinkin

1969
01:33:28,810 --> 01:33:23,119
weapon and the Russians dropped their

1970
01:33:33,580 --> 01:33:28,820
Tsar Bomba it was the 7 million tons of

1971
01:33:37,839 --> 01:33:33,590
TNT energy release equivalent now that

1972
01:33:40,839 --> 01:33:37,849
means you can go to the Stars and you

1973
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:40,849
know that's pretty scary on the one hand

1974
01:33:45,700 --> 01:33:44,570
it's exciting on the other and well the

1975
01:33:47,140 --> 01:33:45,710
other thing that goes with that of

1976
01:33:50,919 --> 01:33:47,150
course our planet is only 4 billion

1977
01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:50,929
years old but they road is 13 billion

1978
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:53,090
years old so somebody got started a

1979
01:33:56,350 --> 01:33:54,650
little bit before we did we didn't

1980
01:34:00,520 --> 01:33:56,360
figure out that there were even no trans

1981
01:34:03,250 --> 01:34:00,530
until 1932 fishing and fusion in 1938 so

1982
01:34:04,959 --> 01:34:03,260
what if some things I started a hundred

1983
01:34:09,069 --> 01:34:04,969
a thousand a million years before we did

1984
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:09,079
what do they know that we don't know you

1985
01:34:16,180 --> 01:34:11,570
know so we have to take into account

1986
01:34:18,759 --> 01:34:16,190
that we're trying to completely right I

1987
01:34:22,930 --> 01:34:18,769
think we are anyway yeah now what do you

1988
01:34:25,509 --> 01:34:22,940
think about Bob Baker loaves claims his

1989
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:25,519
interview on 60 minutes did you catch

1990
01:34:34,209 --> 01:34:28,730
that well I felt a write-up about it and

1991
01:34:37,990 --> 01:34:34,219
as it happens I got the first research

1992
01:34:43,149 --> 01:34:38,000
grant that Bob gave for UFO studies and

1993
01:34:45,850 --> 01:34:43,159
really Wow way back when and I was very

1994
01:34:47,830 --> 01:34:45,860
impressed with him I mean he's a

1995
01:34:49,870 --> 01:34:47,840
billionaire and you can see why he can

1996
01:34:52,410 --> 01:34:49,880
make decisions he knows what he wants

1997
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:52,420
and he goes for it

1998
01:34:57,700 --> 01:34:55,370
it was a pleasure to deal with frankly

1999
01:34:59,920 --> 01:34:57,710
because you know give me a budget and I

2000
01:35:02,020 --> 01:34:59,930
sent him some stuff thanks him some

2001
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:02,030
stuff and I got a yes back in two days

2002
01:35:06,910 --> 01:35:05,330
and you know we agreed on the terms the

2003
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:06,920
size of the contract there was a check

2004
01:35:14,440 --> 01:35:08,810
in my bank account by the end of the

2005
01:35:16,900 --> 01:35:14,450
week I and I he went with us on a visit

2006
01:35:23,170 --> 01:35:16,910
out of the plains of San Agustin stayed

2007
01:35:25,510 --> 01:35:23,180
in the same chromium but so he paid for

2008
01:35:28,030 --> 01:35:25,520
the helicopter though which made it a

2009
01:35:31,090 --> 01:35:28,040
heck of a lot easier driving on the

2010
01:35:35,770 --> 01:35:31,100
boonies yeah you know so bob is a gutsy

2011
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:35,780
guy he knows what he wants I appreciate

2012
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:38,330
his guts and saying he didn't care don't

2013
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:40,010
you think he should be careful about

2014
01:35:44,140 --> 01:35:41,810
what you say somebody asked them and I

2015
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:44,150
guess on the program and I don't care

2016
01:35:51,490 --> 01:35:49,730
yeah yeah and if more people had the

2017
01:35:54,340 --> 01:35:51,500
same amount of courage we'd be a heck of

2018
01:35:57,340 --> 01:35:54,350
a lot further advanced but so I I'm a

2019
01:35:59,440 --> 01:35:57,350
fan of his Imai acknowledge him which

2020
01:36:01,390 --> 01:35:59,450
please didn't I didn't handsome gotta

2021
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:01,400
buy acknowledged person later he told me

2022
01:36:07,810 --> 01:36:03,970
was appreciated in one of my books

2023
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:07,820
flying saucers in science I think gave

2024
01:36:12,490 --> 01:36:08,930
him credit for

2025
01:36:14,530 --> 01:36:12,500
having provided research money I mean it

2026
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:14,540
takes money to do research you know

2027
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:17,570
right like it or not nobody flies me for

2028
01:36:23,770 --> 01:36:20,690
free well you know it's just like he

2029
01:36:26,620 --> 01:36:23,780
said in that interview he's spent more

2030
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:26,630
money than anyone else on the topic and

2031
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:30,410
I believe that's absolutely the you know

2032
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:32,330
the truth and not just that you know I

2033
01:36:38,020 --> 01:36:34,970
mean skinwalker ranch and all that yeah

2034
01:36:41,980 --> 01:36:38,030
he was involved in all that and yeah

2035
01:36:44,250 --> 01:36:41,990
he's a solid guy I we've met we've spent

2036
01:36:46,270 --> 01:36:44,260
time together we've had meals together I

2037
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:46,280
appreciate it I mean I'm not a

2038
01:36:53,710 --> 01:36:50,090
millionaire but I do appreciate how he

2039
01:36:57,130 --> 01:36:53,720
handled things and I could see why he

2040
01:36:59,680 --> 01:36:57,140
took definite actions he didn't monkey

2041
01:37:01,630 --> 01:36:59,690
around hemming and hawing and so forth

2042
01:37:04,570 --> 01:37:01,640
and let me give me a contrast with

2043
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:04,580
something when I was in industry working

2044
01:37:08,420 --> 01:37:05,370
on nuclear

2045
01:37:10,490 --> 01:37:08,430
Rockets I was visiting a general in

2046
01:37:13,010 --> 01:37:10,500
California I worked for Westinghouse in

2047
01:37:14,480 --> 01:37:13,020
Pittsburgh and dealing with my radiation

2048
01:37:16,430 --> 01:37:14,490
shielding guy and he said hey Stan you

2049
01:37:18,140 --> 01:37:16,440
want to go to a meeting what kind of a

2050
01:37:19,940 --> 01:37:18,150
meaning well NASA is having a meeting

2051
01:37:22,370 --> 01:37:19,950
about what they should do with the

2052
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:22,380
nuclear racket oh sure I'd love to go I

2053
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:24,810
went the March meeting I ever attended

2054
01:37:28,940 --> 01:37:26,970
they hadn't the faintest idea what they

2055
01:37:31,190 --> 01:37:28,950
wanted to do maybe we should do this

2056
01:37:33,290 --> 01:37:31,200
maybe we should do that maybe an Earth

2057
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:33,300
orbit lunar orbit maybe a base on the

2058
01:37:37,220 --> 01:37:33,570
moon

2059
01:37:39,170 --> 01:37:37,230
maybe Mars look you need an Admiral

2060
01:37:41,180 --> 01:37:39,180
rickover who says that's where we're

2061
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:41,190
going folks you know you don't want to

2062
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:45,330
go there get off the plane I and I was

2063
01:37:49,550 --> 01:37:47,970
so disappointed in NASA because in the

2064
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:49,560
60s most of us in the space program

2065
01:37:58,190 --> 01:37:51,330
thought we'd have a base on the moon by

2066
01:38:01,070 --> 01:37:58,200
the 2000 we didn't we don't think that

2067
01:38:02,540 --> 01:38:01,080
is socialist all that is stalled so much

2068
01:38:11,540 --> 01:38:02,550
and we haven't gone to the moon since

2069
01:38:19,070 --> 01:38:11,550
nineteen what is it 1972 and a failure

2070
01:38:20,780 --> 01:38:19,080
of not ambition guts courage or of

2071
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:20,790
course it's possible at the Ealing so

2072
01:38:25,670 --> 01:38:23,360
I'd stay the heck off our planet buddy

2073
01:38:27,440 --> 01:38:25,680
you know there was a question earlier in

2074
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:27,450
the chat room someone to know if you

2075
01:38:31,660 --> 01:38:29,610
what you thought about the claims that

2076
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:31,670
people say that there's bases on the

2077
01:38:36,350 --> 01:38:33,810
other side of them you know the dark

2078
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:36,360
side of the moon or whatever well you

2079
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:38,370
know the the Mew fond conference this

2080
01:38:43,940 --> 01:38:40,410
year which is being held in Las Vegas in

2081
01:38:49,700 --> 01:38:43,950
a couple of weeks the secret space

2082
01:38:51,500 --> 01:38:49,710
program is the will and I I'm not going

2083
01:38:53,810 --> 01:38:51,510
to this one I only go when they pay my

2084
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:53,820
wife I've been there more than anybody

2085
01:38:58,460 --> 01:38:55,530
else I've spoken in more than anywhere

2086
01:39:01,460 --> 01:38:58,470
else and I'm anxious to see something

2087
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:01,470
but I have seen no evidence I think some

2088
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:03,690
of that claims and there's a guy who

2089
01:39:09,110 --> 01:39:05,130
claims he goes there every two weeks to

2090
01:39:11,390 --> 01:39:09,120
Mars I think I people forget how big an

2091
01:39:13,580 --> 01:39:11,400
undertaking it would be and yes secrets

2092
01:39:16,330 --> 01:39:13,590
can be kept but we're talking huge

2093
01:39:19,270 --> 01:39:16,340
enormous amounts of money

2094
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:19,280
to building systems also if we've

2095
01:39:24,330 --> 01:39:21,410
developed so much technology like this

2096
01:39:27,850 --> 01:39:24,340
why don't we use it we've had a few Wars

2097
01:39:32,200 --> 01:39:27,860
you know I that's where you normally

2098
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:32,210
would use your your top-notch technology

2099
01:39:37,390 --> 01:39:35,210
I would think I would think so and that

2100
01:39:41,410 --> 01:39:37,400
that kind of brings circle back to the

2101
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:41,420
triangle UFOs that's but keep going you

2102
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:45,050
know I'll bring that up well you know my

2103
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:48,890
my thought is that we may have had

2104
01:39:56,440 --> 01:39:51,410
systems that we tried and didn't work

2105
01:39:58,960 --> 01:39:56,450
and some you cut the mustard yeah and I

2106
01:40:02,020 --> 01:39:58,970
I think that probably happened

2107
01:40:05,140 --> 01:40:02,030
look people forget maybe that there were

2108
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:05,150
we had supersonic transports can't take

2109
01:40:11,380 --> 01:40:08,690
a flight now Kenya and what caused the

2110
01:40:15,010 --> 01:40:11,390
stop it wasn't economically feasible you

2111
01:40:18,870 --> 01:40:15,020
know if every flight loses money it's

2112
01:40:27,100 --> 01:40:18,880
not a good thing to do company

2113
01:40:29,620 --> 01:40:27,110
trillionaire nine so I I think that

2114
01:40:32,290 --> 01:40:29,630
there may be all kinds of classified

2115
01:40:35,350 --> 01:40:32,300
technology around but I'm not at all

2116
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:35,360
satisfied that we have set up bases on

2117
01:40:42,460 --> 01:40:39,770
the moon yeah or on Mars or anyplace

2118
01:40:46,630 --> 01:40:42,470
else beyond that yeah I'm not really

2119
01:40:48,850 --> 01:40:46,640
alone that either I mean I'm happy to be

2120
01:40:50,470 --> 01:40:48,860
shown some evidence but I want evidence

2121
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:50,480
not somebody saying well I know somebody

2122
01:40:54,130 --> 01:40:52,250
who goes there every other week all

2123
01:40:56,860 --> 01:40:54,140
right that's that's not good enough

2124
01:40:59,650 --> 01:40:56,870
don't we have a like an orbiter around

2125
01:41:03,120 --> 01:40:59,660
the moon to like you know filming

2126
01:41:06,130 --> 01:41:03,130
constantly and photographing we have had

2127
01:41:10,750 --> 01:41:06,140
was a Clementine I think wasn't there

2128
01:41:12,660 --> 01:41:10,760
for a long time and made observations of

2129
01:41:17,460 --> 01:41:12,670
water on

2130
01:41:21,150 --> 01:41:17,470
in other places so you know I can't say

2131
01:41:25,200 --> 01:41:21,160
it's impossible what I can say is I have

2132
01:41:28,140 --> 01:41:25,210
seen no evidence to date that we have a

2133
01:41:32,100 --> 01:41:28,150
base on Moon or Mars or anyplace else in

2134
01:41:34,500 --> 01:41:32,110
the solar system besides Earth and I'd

2135
01:41:37,530 --> 01:41:34,510
be happy if we did Jeannie we're getting

2136
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:37,540
up there you know I'd say but again

2137
01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:39,570
partly because there was a little

2138
01:41:44,340 --> 01:41:42,730
jurisdictional dispute is it going to be

2139
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:44,350
China that runs it or Russia or the

2140
01:41:51,450 --> 01:41:47,890
United States or whoever who makes the

2141
01:41:54,810 --> 01:41:51,460
decisions and we've had a few Wars on

2142
01:41:58,310 --> 01:41:54,820
this point it to settle those questions

2143
01:42:00,930 --> 01:41:58,320
heavily I think there's over 300

2144
01:42:03,780 --> 01:42:00,940
thousand Wars documented or something

2145
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:03,790
like I read something worth is I may be

2146
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:07,090
way off on the number but the amount of

2147
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:09,730
wars documented throughout history is

2148
01:42:18,380 --> 01:42:12,970
just incredible yes and the damage done

2149
01:42:22,470 --> 01:42:18,390
by those wars PA the worst you know yeah

2150
01:42:26,460 --> 01:42:22,480
yeah well a simple number World War two

2151
01:42:30,510 --> 01:42:26,470
we nice Earthlings killed 50 million of

2152
01:42:33,480 --> 01:42:30,520
our own kind and we destroyed 1700

2153
01:42:35,670 --> 01:42:33,490
cities can you imagine five hundred

2154
01:42:40,790 --> 01:42:35,680
airplanes at once going across Europe

2155
01:42:46,740 --> 01:42:40,800
but all of them dropping bombs you know

2156
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:46,750
it is yeah yeah so now getting back to

2157
01:42:55,110 --> 01:42:51,130
the technology say that there is you

2158
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:55,120
know some technology like a triangle or

2159
01:42:59,550 --> 01:42:55,930
something like that

2160
01:43:01,260 --> 01:42:59,560
why don't you think they are you know

2161
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:01,270
there's not talk about something being

2162
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:04,210
used that's really advanced and and and

2163
01:43:11,330 --> 01:43:08,010
are and while worrying that we do

2164
01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:11,340
probably the cost

2165
01:43:18,680 --> 01:43:16,090
fancy technology is expensive you know

2166
01:43:24,690 --> 01:43:18,690
it's not bows and arrows anymore yeah

2167
01:43:27,480 --> 01:43:24,700
they're cheap so and then someone had

2168
01:43:29,460 --> 01:43:27,490
asked also in the chat room earlier what

2169
01:43:32,700 --> 01:43:29,470
did you think about reverse technology

2170
01:43:36,930 --> 01:43:32,710
of do you think any of that has ever

2171
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:36,940
happened I think some some of it has

2172
01:43:43,620 --> 01:43:38,890
happened on occasions let me give you

2173
01:43:45,990 --> 01:43:43,630
one example I did a weekly science

2174
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:46,000
commentary for the local CBC Canadian

2175
01:43:50,370 --> 01:43:47,890
Broadcasting Company Station for six

2176
01:43:52,470 --> 01:43:50,380
years here in Fredericton and I was

2177
01:43:55,350 --> 01:43:52,480
reading on the latest I've read a lot of

2178
01:43:57,360 --> 01:43:55,360
papers and stuff there was one on new

2179
01:44:01,950 --> 01:43:57,370
developments and better permanent

2180
01:44:05,250 --> 01:44:01,960
magnets neodymium-iron-boron which I who

2181
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:05,260
ever heard of that but anyway it buried

2182
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:07,210
in this was that the original work on

2183
01:44:14,550 --> 01:44:09,010
what was previously thought to be the

2184
01:44:18,810 --> 01:44:14,560
best permanent magnet samarium-cobalt to

2185
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:18,820
other things most the work was done at

2186
01:44:26,630 --> 01:44:21,850
wright-patterson Air Force Base in Ohio

2187
01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:26,640
I just laughed my head off because

2188
01:44:31,740 --> 01:44:29,170
that's where the wreckage from Roswell

2189
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:31,750
went hmm there's a foreign technology

2190
01:44:37,710 --> 01:44:33,850
group there it's called and I had a

2191
01:44:39,450 --> 01:44:37,720
contract with them looking at soap

2192
01:44:41,340 --> 01:44:39,460
whether the Soviets had the capability

2193
01:44:43,620 --> 01:44:41,350
of building reactors from space and they

2194
01:44:45,210 --> 01:44:43,630
did I concluded I must have been the

2195
01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:45,220
only guy in the country that was happy

2196
01:44:51,660 --> 01:44:48,250
when cosmos nine five four crashed in

2197
01:44:54,330 --> 01:44:51,670
northern Canada because it was had a

2198
01:44:56,460 --> 01:44:54,340
nuclear reactor on board and it was like

2199
01:44:58,350 --> 01:44:56,470
the 13th one that they had built and

2200
01:45:00,720 --> 01:44:58,360
they wound up building the Russians so

2201
01:45:06,450 --> 01:45:00,730
over thirty United States has launched

2202
01:45:09,110 --> 01:45:06,460
one so and I think what I'm saying is I

2203
01:45:13,140 --> 01:45:09,120
think there has been successful

2204
01:45:14,610 --> 01:45:13,150
back-engineering if you will that you

2205
01:45:17,700 --> 01:45:14,620
know and people ask well what would you

2206
01:45:20,190 --> 01:45:17,710
do if you pick up a wreckage I'd send

2207
01:45:22,020 --> 01:45:20,200
pieces off to the best labs I knew that

2208
01:45:23,310 --> 01:45:22,030
had his appropriate security clearance

2209
01:45:25,970 --> 01:45:23,320
and appropriate Talent

2210
01:45:29,029 --> 01:45:25,980
and first question is what is this stuff

2211
01:45:31,290 --> 01:45:29,039
it's a combination of samarium-cobalt

2212
01:45:32,939 --> 01:45:31,300
what would you use those for well that's

2213
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:32,949
somebody else's job and you'd say

2214
01:45:38,549 --> 01:45:36,250
measure all the electrical magnetic etc

2215
01:45:40,379 --> 01:45:38,559
properties and you'd find the biggest

2216
01:45:43,879 --> 01:45:40,389
magnetic moment of any material we've

2217
01:45:46,049 --> 01:45:43,889
ever measured and you'd go to build that

2218
01:45:47,609 --> 01:45:46,059
that doesn't build you a propulsion

2219
01:45:50,250 --> 01:45:47,619
system but it builds you some new

2220
01:45:54,660 --> 01:45:50,260
technology so you'll learn what you can

2221
01:45:56,600 --> 01:45:54,670
when you when you can do it but that's

2222
01:45:59,520 --> 01:45:56,610
not the same as you know it's like

2223
01:46:01,620 --> 01:45:59,530
handing somebody if you handed somebody

2224
01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:01,630
might cheap wristwatch digital

2225
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:04,050
wristwatch and in the year I was born

2226
01:46:08,970 --> 01:46:07,570
1934 he'd have known was a watch known

2227
01:46:10,890 --> 01:46:08,980
there was a battery and everybody sure

2228
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:10,900
as heck couldn't analyze the chip and he

2229
01:46:15,029 --> 01:46:13,570
surely couldn't build another chip just

2230
01:46:18,060 --> 01:46:15,039
a cheap rest for watch but you know

2231
01:46:21,990 --> 01:46:18,070
Intel spent a billion dollars diverted a

2232
01:46:27,180 --> 01:46:22,000
facility to make more things so it isn't

2233
01:46:29,370 --> 01:46:27,190
easy right to do a lot of the new well

2234
01:46:31,529 --> 01:46:29,380
it's kind of scary when you look at some

2235
01:46:33,180 --> 01:46:31,539
of the technology I use I hate to say

2236
01:46:36,180 --> 01:46:33,190
this I use a slide rule and I started

2237
01:46:37,950 --> 01:46:36,190
working in this yeah I was in front of a

2238
01:46:42,930 --> 01:46:37,960
class of students that our University in

2239
01:46:45,479 --> 01:46:42,940
Michigan not one of them knew won Nobel

2240
01:46:48,529 --> 01:46:45,489
Prize winners use slide rules now even

2241
01:46:51,029 --> 01:46:48,539
you buy for five bucks you buy a little

2242
01:46:53,399 --> 01:46:51,039
solid-state device and you can do far

2243
01:46:56,430 --> 01:46:53,409
more for far less once you've gotten to

2244
01:47:01,500 --> 01:46:56,440
that far from starting from juror mm-hm

2245
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:01,510
yeah yeah oh boy I had a question and I

2246
01:47:08,370 --> 01:47:05,530
didn't write it down it was it was in

2247
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:08,380
regards to once again oh yes the

2248
01:47:14,399 --> 01:47:10,690
technology the technology that the

2249
01:47:15,899 --> 01:47:14,409
crafts must have had to get here how do

2250
01:47:17,549 --> 01:47:15,909
you think it's possible that they could

2251
01:47:21,089 --> 01:47:17,559
have crashed and then there's a number

2252
01:47:23,580 --> 01:47:21,099
of noted crashes you've just made an

2253
01:47:26,879 --> 01:47:23,590
assumption I I think we have a two-stage

2254
01:47:28,410 --> 01:47:26,889
system from solar system to solar system

2255
01:47:30,689 --> 01:47:28,420
and then once you're in the atmosphere

2256
01:47:33,160 --> 01:47:30,699
for example we have nuclear-powered

2257
01:47:39,090 --> 01:47:33,170
aircraft carriers

2258
01:47:43,750 --> 01:47:39,100
huge monsters over 800 feet long that

2259
01:47:47,380 --> 01:47:43,760
can operate for 18 years without

2260
01:47:49,900 --> 01:47:47,390
refueling think about that for a minute

2261
01:47:51,340 --> 01:47:49,910
on the other hand they carry about 75

2262
01:47:54,850 --> 01:47:51,350
little airplanes that can operate for

2263
01:47:56,380 --> 01:47:54,860
two hours with everything in other words

2264
01:47:59,170 --> 01:47:56,390
between the stars is an entirely

2265
01:48:02,260 --> 01:47:59,180
different environment from within the

2266
01:48:05,020 --> 01:48:02,270
atmosphere of a planet so I and we don't

2267
01:48:07,690 --> 01:48:05,030
see any of these huge mother ships near

2268
01:48:09,990 --> 01:48:07,700
the planet you know down on the landing

2269
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:10,000
field so to speak they're seen up above

2270
01:48:18,070 --> 01:48:14,090
there's some great cases but they're big

2271
01:48:22,570 --> 01:48:18,080
and they're up there not down here so I

2272
01:48:26,380 --> 01:48:22,580
think we are dealing with two separate

2273
01:48:28,810 --> 01:48:26,390
problems interstellar and atmospheric

2274
01:48:31,750 --> 01:48:28,820
propulsion system and entirely different

2275
01:48:34,150 --> 01:48:31,760
environment a lot cheaper to zip around

2276
01:48:36,130 --> 01:48:34,160
in the atmosphere so if that's the case

2277
01:48:38,170 --> 01:48:36,140
let's just say there let's just go to

2278
01:48:41,140 --> 01:48:38,180
Roswell and say that there was a

2279
01:48:43,660 --> 01:48:41,150
mothership up there and they launched

2280
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:43,670
you know the smaller craft which crashed

2281
01:48:49,390 --> 01:48:46,610
why wasn't there an attempt or of a

2282
01:48:51,820 --> 01:48:49,400
retrieval we don't know that there

2283
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:51,830
wasn't hmm I mean the mothership may

2284
01:48:55,450 --> 01:48:53,330
have moved off there and launched some

2285
01:48:57,910 --> 01:48:55,460
over and over that place and you guys

2286
01:49:00,010 --> 01:48:57,920
look at that quadrant and so forth Oh

2287
01:49:01,390 --> 01:49:00,020
God in other words I don't think it they

2288
01:49:03,430 --> 01:49:01,400
launched in it crashed

2289
01:49:08,740 --> 01:49:03,440
I think it's been flying around doing

2290
01:49:10,030 --> 01:49:08,750
its duties for days whatever and but as

2291
01:49:14,860 --> 01:49:10,040
it happens there were plenty more

2292
01:49:17,200 --> 01:49:14,870
sightings in New Mexico right after this

2293
01:49:22,210 --> 01:49:17,210
in that period of time early July in

2294
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:22,220
other words but I think who knows maybe

2295
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:26,890
they only had the what do you called

2296
01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:31,690
clones maybe you know the working guys

2297
01:49:38,500 --> 01:49:35,570
maybe they're expendable uh yeah yeah I

2298
01:49:40,570 --> 01:49:38,510
would think that you know just thinking

2299
01:49:42,340 --> 01:49:40,580
the way a human would think that we

2300
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:42,350
wouldn't want our technology to get in

2301
01:49:45,990 --> 01:49:44,090
someone else's hands but you know maybe

2302
01:49:48,250 --> 01:49:46,000
they don't think that way

2303
01:49:50,290 --> 01:49:48,260
well maybe they think these idiots

2304
01:49:55,300 --> 01:49:50,300
couldn't duplicate this in 50 years what

2305
01:49:57,490 --> 01:49:55,310
do you mean they're right we haven't as

2306
01:50:00,490 --> 01:49:57,500
far as I can tell yeah I've heard you

2307
01:50:04,810 --> 01:50:00,500
say before at a lecture that there's

2308
01:50:06,640 --> 01:50:04,820
been over 5,000 trace cases yes Ted

2309
01:50:09,189 --> 01:50:06,650
Phillips is the expert on that

2310
01:50:13,979 --> 01:50:09,199
Fred's from 80 countries 80 countries

2311
01:50:17,050 --> 01:50:13,989
yeah what would you say and actually

2312
01:50:19,200 --> 01:50:17,060
currently I've been in touch with Ray

2313
01:50:23,379 --> 01:50:19,210
Stanford and he's working on something

2314
01:50:24,700 --> 01:50:23,389
going on to Sakura which you know

2315
01:50:27,189 --> 01:50:24,710
hopefully there'll be something out of

2316
01:50:30,430 --> 01:50:27,199
that but what would you consider one of

2317
01:50:32,530 --> 01:50:30,440
the we only have a five or six or seven

2318
01:50:37,260 --> 01:50:32,540
minutes here what would you consider one

2319
01:50:40,629 --> 01:50:37,270
of the best trace cases well I'm still

2320
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:40,639
partial because I've been there to tell

2321
01:50:49,479 --> 01:50:45,650
folks Kansas and yeah the Johnson family

2322
01:50:51,850 --> 01:50:49,489
doin their thing and Ronnie Johnson's

2323
01:50:55,709 --> 01:50:51,860
out taking care of the Sheep and miss

2324
01:50:59,589 --> 01:50:55,719
Arnold saucer lands right over there and

2325
01:51:01,330 --> 01:50:59,599
he's with his dog and shocked to see

2326
01:51:07,859 --> 01:51:01,340
this thing this goes back a number of

2327
01:51:11,530 --> 01:51:07,869
years and the thing takes off and he

2328
01:51:13,030 --> 01:51:11,540
slowly he dashes into the house tells us

2329
01:51:17,350 --> 01:51:13,040
her parents he just saw this this

2330
01:51:21,660 --> 01:51:17,360
strange vehicle out there and they go

2331
01:51:26,850 --> 01:51:21,670
out and they see it and they see the

2332
01:51:31,209 --> 01:51:26,860
ring a circle of soil that was dried out

2333
01:51:34,340 --> 01:51:31,219
and his mother places her hand on the

2334
01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:34,350
soil and he almost burned yourself

2335
01:51:42,350 --> 01:51:38,370
uh this was weird and Ted heard about

2336
01:51:45,350 --> 01:51:42,360
this and that there was some publicity

2337
01:51:49,790 --> 01:51:45,360
in the area and some ways the sheriff

2338
01:51:54,260 --> 01:51:49,800
got involved and so I got sent samples

2339
01:51:57,860 --> 01:51:54,270
of the soil from the ring and from the

2340
01:51:59,780 --> 01:51:57,870
surrounding area and I had I called a

2341
01:52:02,450 --> 01:51:59,790
couple of companies I was living in

2342
01:52:05,330 --> 01:52:02,460
California at the time you know what's

2343
01:52:07,250 --> 01:52:05,340
the best lab for checking something that

2344
01:52:09,500 --> 01:52:07,260
won't grow anything because I didn't get

2345
01:52:12,170 --> 01:52:09,510
until after sometime and they tried

2346
01:52:13,790 --> 01:52:12,180
running us blind some seeds you know and

2347
01:52:17,650 --> 01:52:13,800
the ring soil didn't grow anything and

2348
01:52:20,090 --> 01:52:17,660
the normal soil grew stuff fine and

2349
01:52:23,390 --> 01:52:20,100
found that the soil had a higher level

2350
01:52:24,950 --> 01:52:23,400
of soluble minerals to salty if you want

2351
01:52:27,860 --> 01:52:24,960
to put it that way you know it's very

2352
01:52:30,500 --> 01:52:27,870
hard to grow under those conditions so

2353
01:52:32,600 --> 01:52:30,510
you know we've got a family known in the

2354
01:52:35,210 --> 01:52:32,610
community small town Dulles Kansas a

2355
01:52:40,310 --> 01:52:35,220
quite small town the sheriff was

2356
01:52:42,950 --> 01:52:40,320
involved I meant the people I trusted

2357
01:52:44,510 --> 01:52:42,960
he's collected over four thousand over

2358
01:52:46,970 --> 01:52:44,520
well I don't know what the number is now

2359
01:52:50,900 --> 01:52:46,980
having talked recently he's from

2360
01:52:53,540 --> 01:52:50,910
Missouri I close by he actually visited

2361
01:52:56,330 --> 01:52:53,550
the place not too long after we and so

2362
01:53:00,260 --> 01:52:56,340
it's a typical case that they didn't see

2363
01:53:03,710 --> 01:53:00,270
any beans on the ground only about I

2364
01:53:05,570 --> 01:53:03,720
forget under 16 percent of the cases

2365
01:53:08,750 --> 01:53:05,580
involved reports of being seen

2366
01:53:12,590 --> 01:53:08,760
associated with the craft but all over

2367
01:53:15,110 --> 01:53:12,600
the world this happens and sure nobody's

2368
01:53:17,030 --> 01:53:15,120
brought out a net and captured an alien

2369
01:53:19,070 --> 01:53:17,040
and showed it off at the local zoo you

2370
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:19,080
know

2371
01:53:24,020 --> 01:53:21,690
I think they might be resistant to that

2372
01:53:27,830 --> 01:53:24,030
once they get stuff down here the food's

2373
01:53:30,380 --> 01:53:27,840
lousy you know people are fearing I

2374
01:53:33,710 --> 01:53:30,390
don't know but there are loads of such

2375
01:53:36,710 --> 01:53:33,720
cases is the point thousands not five or

2376
01:53:40,070 --> 01:53:36,720
ten all right well what is missing in

2377
01:53:41,840 --> 01:53:40,080
this whole picture is what I thought to

2378
01:53:43,910 --> 01:53:41,850
illustrate it I took my audience is at

2379
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:43,920
the end of my lecture never at the

2380
01:53:47,450 --> 01:53:46,050
beginning how many people here believe

2381
01:53:48,770 --> 01:53:47,460
they've seen what I would consider to be

2382
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:48,780
a flying saucer

2383
01:53:56,960 --> 01:53:52,050
I'm not asking names I'm just pointing

2384
01:53:59,150 --> 01:53:56,970
count and when I do this much of the

2385
01:54:00,890 --> 01:53:59,160
surprise of many of the people there ten

2386
01:54:03,710 --> 01:54:00,900
percent of the people in my audience's

2387
01:54:06,080 --> 01:54:03,720
believe they've seen one but then I ask

2388
01:54:08,570 --> 01:54:06,090
how many of you reported what you saw

2389
01:54:10,910 --> 01:54:08,580
right ninety percent of the hands go

2390
01:54:12,290 --> 01:54:10,920
down right if there's still anybody left

2391
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:12,300
I'll say how many of you were in the

2392
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:14,730
military at the time if there's still

2393
01:54:20,900 --> 01:54:18,690
anybody left I say anyone tell us about

2394
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:20,910
it one guy in front of thirteen hundred

2395
01:54:26,090 --> 01:54:22,890
people in Texas says I can't they told

2396
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:26,100
me not to say anything well I had

2397
01:54:32,540 --> 01:54:29,570
another guy say they took my pictures

2398
01:54:34,070 --> 01:54:32,550
that's all he said and I said well I'm

2399
01:54:35,690 --> 01:54:34,080
sure the audience would like to hear the

2400
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:35,700
rest of the story so they brought a

2401
01:54:42,110 --> 01:54:37,530
microphone over he didn't I didn't ask

2402
01:54:43,190 --> 01:54:42,120
his name he didn't stand up I want to

2403
01:54:45,620 --> 01:54:43,200
tell us about it

2404
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:45,630
well he was flying a four it was a pilot

2405
01:54:49,100 --> 01:54:47,370
flying a four-engine aircraft over the

2406
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:49,110
Pacific there's another plane 20 miles

2407
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:51,930
ahead radioed back saucer heading your

2408
01:54:54,860 --> 01:54:52,170
way

2409
01:54:56,690 --> 01:54:54,870
they had gun cameras on the plane they

2410
01:54:58,790 --> 01:54:56,700
took pictures they called the base to

2411
01:55:00,920 --> 01:54:58,800
which they were flying let him know that

2412
01:55:03,430 --> 01:55:00,930
intelligence information was coming and

2413
01:55:06,860 --> 01:55:03,440
you don't take the film to the drugstore

2414
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:06,870
about such things and when they landed

2415
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:09,930
the film got taken and they were

2416
01:55:15,620 --> 01:55:12,290
debriefed and told never to say anything

2417
01:55:17,300 --> 01:55:15,630
and I'll tell you I I would say

2418
01:55:19,580 --> 01:55:17,310
everybody in the room believed the guy

2419
01:55:22,710 --> 01:55:19,590
he just came across so well and it was

2420
01:55:24,750 --> 01:55:22,720
clear they knew that I hadn't you know I

2421
01:55:30,210 --> 01:55:24,760
from there at all this is an

2422
01:55:32,450 --> 01:55:30,220
Indianapolis matter-of-fact and so how

2423
01:55:35,910 --> 01:55:32,460
many more cases are there like that

2424
01:55:39,150 --> 01:55:35,920
where people are afraid to talk in

2425
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:39,160
general and I'm sure if I had pushed him

2426
01:55:44,190 --> 01:55:42,490
well I'll give you another example a guy

2427
01:55:46,980 --> 01:55:44,200
when I asked you you want to tell us

2428
01:55:50,010 --> 01:55:46,990
about it I'll talk to you later comes up

2429
01:55:53,220 --> 01:55:50,020
to my table he wanted to tell somebody

2430
01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:53,230
but he it felt very constrained the guy

2431
01:55:58,680 --> 01:55:54,970
tells he's flying a helicopter in

2432
01:56:02,330 --> 01:55:58,690
Vietnam and suddenly the sleek circular

2433
01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:02,340
saucer type vehicle comes by them

2434
01:56:06,510 --> 01:56:04,810
circles around them twice and he figures

2435
01:56:10,140 --> 01:56:06,520
were dead there must be in a Russian

2436
01:56:12,150 --> 01:56:10,150
vehicle you know and took off so he

2437
01:56:15,270 --> 01:56:12,160
dutifully when they land he reports the

2438
01:56:18,440 --> 01:56:15,280
commander about the experience they've

2439
01:56:20,940 --> 01:56:18,450
had and the next day base commander

2440
01:56:23,100 --> 01:56:20,950
lieutenant Jones you didn't see anything

2441
01:56:25,020 --> 01:56:23,110
strange yesterday did you yes sir I

2442
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:25,030
reported it you didn't hear me

2443
01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:27,610
lieutenant Jones I didn't see anything

2444
01:56:36,210 --> 01:56:32,530
strangest no sir I you know how many

2445
01:56:38,280 --> 01:56:36,220
times more is that happened so until we

2446
01:56:40,020 --> 01:56:38,290
break through that laughter Curtin and

2447
01:56:42,990 --> 01:56:40,030
the fear occurred and was security

2448
01:56:44,370 --> 01:56:43,000
Curtin the good stuff is gonna be out

2449
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:44,380
there sorry

2450
01:56:48,570 --> 01:56:46,930
yeah hey Stan we're at the end of the

2451
01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:48,580
show can you give out your website

2452
01:56:55,170 --> 01:56:52,450
address please yeah the easiest way to

2453
01:57:00,210 --> 01:56:55,180
reach me triple w dot Stanton Friedman

2454
01:57:02,850 --> 01:57:00,220
fr ie D and my n.com and it lists all my

2455
01:57:04,380 --> 01:57:02,860
books and I should add one thing you

2456
01:57:06,270 --> 01:57:04,390
can't get from Amazon they're a great

2457
01:57:07,380 --> 01:57:06,280
place to buy books but you don't get my

2458
01:57:11,100 --> 01:57:07,390
autograph

2459
01:57:13,260 --> 01:57:11,110
that's everything I send out I uh lists

2460
01:57:15,390 --> 01:57:13,270
all my books there's some articles stuff

2461
01:57:17,280 --> 01:57:15,400
to find out but there's plenty of it

2462
01:57:19,950 --> 01:57:17,290
also gives me a funs address and all

2463
01:57:21,780 --> 01:57:19,960
that sort of stuff so there there is an

2464
01:57:23,700 --> 01:57:21,790
opportunity and I should say one thing

2465
01:57:26,160 --> 01:57:23,710
we've changed our view about how many

2466
01:57:27,930 --> 01:57:26,170
planets there are Frank Drake was saying

2467
01:57:30,630 --> 01:57:27,940
there might be 8 thousand places I could

2468
01:57:34,440 --> 01:57:30,640
send signals in our galaxy the current

2469
01:57:37,390 --> 01:57:34,450
number will be found 8 billion

2470
01:57:39,010 --> 01:57:37,400
our priest a little change yeah yeah

2471
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:39,020
just a little the equation is all

2472
01:57:43,180 --> 01:57:41,690
changed yeah you're right hey thanks

2473
01:57:47,140 --> 01:57:43,190
Stan it's always a real pleasure to have

2474
01:57:47,980 --> 01:57:47,150
you on and until next time I look

2475
01:57:50,470 --> 01:57:47,990
forward to it

2476
01:57:51,730 --> 01:57:50,480
all right we'll have more no nose I hope

2477
01:58:08,820 --> 01:57:51,740
so all right

2478
01:58:08,830 --> 01:58:37,420
you